It's that time of year again . . .

[JohnDeereFan]

Scripture says cruelty to animals is wrong. Those who are brutish enough to do it simply for sport—or, more accurately, for fun—are cruel.

So, which is more cruel: to shoot an animal square in the heart or vital organs and allow it to die within minutes? Or to keep it in deplorable, unnatural, and overcrowded conditions for years, only to kill it by sticking an electric prod up it's anus and electrocuting it (which often takes several attempts and is excruciatingly painful)?

We get several vegetarian magazines and one of them recently had an article that says that most polls show that people become vegetarians, not because they have a problem with eating meat, but because they have a problem with the deplorable conditions in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

This isn't the question. Not even close.

Good.

No one said it's wrong to kill a deer. Again, that's not the argument.

That may be, but the problem is that there are those who cannot differentiate killing deer for food and killing deer for the pleasure of killing something.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I have never met anyone who waste fish. And those who do it for sport usually use the catch and release method to include those who create television shows.

We don't.

Obviously, we fillet what we can. After that, the heads and tails go right into the crab traps, which we put out as soon as we can, and everything else goes into the garden.

 

[Robert Snow]

This thread is ridiculous. I am from a family of hunters. They enjoy the hunt. They enjoy the meat. They enjoy the whole experience. They do not waste the meat.

Now fishing for sport is something I'm against. That is a waste.

Good point! Somehow fishing is allowed, but hunting is not. I used to hunt when I was growing up and never felt sorry for the quail or squirrel we shot and ate. As an adult I just don't want to hunt anymore, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who does. In fact, my nephew is a avid hunter.

 

[Robert Snow]

Just so I'm clear----I search my house for mosquitos. No joke. And when I find them, even if they are minding their own business, I kill them. Then I let out a cackle. I find. I conquer. I laugh. End of story.

You EVIL man! Don't you even wait for mosquito season! :laugh:

 

[Johnv]

Uhh, "Bambi" was released in 1942. It's hardly guilty of "animal rights junk".

That said, what hunter would willingly or knowingly shoot a doe who has fawns? Responsible hunters typically would not. In most cases, shooting a doe during fawnign season is illegal.

 

[Gina B]

I rarely agree to disagree in matters that include the topic of the life of anything that contains blood.

Then you will just have to disagree away. Have fun!!!!

Sag, I do tend to get very sensitive on "right to life" issues, and I extend quality of life issues to animals. As another poster later on down the line mentioned, the quality of life and the manner of execution in commercial meat places is very disturbing to me, and I already mentioned the biblical reasons I feel that hunting for sport and not for food is wrong.

Anyhow, I know I can come off strong sometimes. So while I mean what I said about my beliefs, I do think that I "spoke" to you in a condescending tone. For that I apologize and hope that you'll give the matter of animal treatment and God's expectations of us in that matter further consideration, even if only in your own private thoughts.

 

[rbell]

In fact, my nephew is a avid hunter.

I hear avids are hard to kill.

WHen does avid season start, anyway?

 

[Johnv]

Wait, Gina, did I read yoru post correctly, that you're okay with an animal getting shot for food, but you're not okay with an animal getting slaughtered in a slaughter house for food? Seems a little inconsistent.

 

[Gina B]

So, which is more cruel: to shoot an animal square in the heart or vital organs and allow it to die within minutes? Or to keep it in deplorable, unnatural, and overcrowded conditions for years, only to kill it by sticking an electric prod up it's anus and electrocuting it (which often takes several attempts and is excruciatingly painful)?

We get several vegetarian magazines and one of them recently had an article that says that most polls show that people become vegetarians, not because they have a problem with eating meat, but because they have a problem with the deplorable conditions in factory farms and slaughterhouses.

Thanks for your posts, JDF. I still need to talk to my oldest daughter some more, but she is very hesitant to eat meat and her reasons are as you stated. I myself did the same for a few years.
We are in a new area of the country and I do need to get busy and learn the area and how to manage a healthy diet for a growing teen, while trying to find a place that sells kosher meat or farmers that farm according to biblical principles and get our meats from there if possible.
I need to make the family more sensitive to this issue...I'm guilty of not always living up to what I believe, and that contributes to the problem.

I just don't get why Christians are so often the WEAKEST on this issue. Common sense tells me that we should be the strongest voice for caring for the earth and for creatures correctly. Most hunters I know that are Christians do have a healthy dose of respect for the land and for animals, and that's awesome, but self-sufficient people are also growing very rare. Then again, if someone is raised in a city and knows nothing but Wal-Mart and that meat comes on a piece of plastic wrapped foam, I guess it would be hard to make the issue have much meaning for them.

What can be done about it though? Education is usually key to any problem. How many people here think that churches would be willing to accept and distribute a well-written pamphlet on biblical treatment of our earth, our duty towards creation, and how it relates to our diets? I'm starting to get tempted to write something of that nature, or at least include it in something I'm working on. What think ye?

 

[Aaron]

I got this thread figured out now. You can kill a deer as long as you don't enjoy doing it. :BangHead:

Not even in the ball park.

 

[Gina B]

Wait, Gina, did I read yoru post correctly, that you're okay with an animal getting shot for food, but you're not okay with an animal getting slaughtered in a slaughter house for food? Seems a little inconsistent.

In a sense, yes. That is correct.

I think more people should do their own hunting for food.

I am against the way many mass producers of meat raise and slaughter animals. There is a right way and a wrong way.

I believe animals that are raised for food should be raised with care and treated properly. When they are slaughtered, they should be slaughtered in a way that causes the least pain and fear for them. For those who hunt, it should be done with a sense of gratefulness, and they should not cause unneeded pain and fear to that creature for "fun" or waste parts that can be used. Not only do I believe that is scriptural, I believe it is healthiest for the consumer and the earth.

 

[webdog]

What men don't need food to survive?



But unless you believe God is just going to drop food on you out of the sky, like He did with the Israelites, that food still has to come from somewhere.



So then, you have no problem with somebody else killing an animal for your pleasure. So let's be honest here: it isn't that you don't think animals shouldn't be killed for pleasure, it's just that you don't want to get your hands dirty or have to look at the animal that's being killed.

Please follow along...

 

[webdog]

Good point! Somehow fishing is allowed, but hunting is not. I used to hunt when I was growing up and never felt sorry for the quail or squirrel we shot and ate. As an adult I just don't want to hunt anymore, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who does. In fact, my nephew is a avid hunter.

I have issues with the "catch and release" fishing as well. To poke a hole in a fishes mouth for fun is equally cruel.

 

[Aaron]

What say ye about killing/poisoning mice? Squashing spiders? Swatting flies? Slapping mosquitos (which I do with glee)?

The control of pests is a necessity. I use copious amounts of poison around the home for the control creeping things. I own two quasi-ferrel cats for the control of rodents.

I shot a squirrel that was nesting in my attic with a .177 cal. precision pellet rifle and a laser scope. Right through the abdomen. It jumped from my roof and ran along the top of the fence, but by the time it got to the tree, it didn't have the strength to climb. I finished it off with a short length of two-by-four, and the trash service hauled it off the next day.

It's a necessity, and it was only natural that my girls felt sorry for the infernal thing.

But to take glee in killing is sick.

 

[Aaron]

I have issues with the "catch and release" fishing as well. To poke a hole in a fishes mouth for fun is equally cruel.

I probably need to reexamine my entire position. So far I've heartily agreed with everything you've posted in this thread.

 

[JMSR]

As an avid hunter, I can't help it they've chosen to regulate my foraging into seasons.

 

[webdog]

I probably need to reexamine my entire position. So far I've heartily agreed with everything you've posted in this thread.

See, we can agree on stuff

To be honest I never gave either hunting or fishing much thought in the past. This thread has opened up issues and questions I haven't thought about before. We were just out fishing with the kids on Sept. 27th (catch and release), and after looking into tests done on fish, they do feel pain and the hook. Studies done show a fish suffers. We were going to buy my son a fishing rod for Christmas, but I told my wife that is now out of the question.

 

[Johnv]

I think more people should do their own hunting for food.

Living in southern california, that would be difficult, unless I want to live off a diet of rattlesnake, opposum, and coyote.

I am against the way many mass producers of meat raise and slaughter animals. There is a right way and a wrong way.

Perhaps the reason I feel differently is because one if my kids did 4H and FFA for 6 years. The only thing I've learned about livestock is they simply don't care about the things we care about. I'm all for humane treatment of animals, but much of what we think of humane is subjective, not objective.

 

[Andy T.]

I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread.