Crucified in Christ
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The really sad thing is that this is often the case. So many people with this problem exaggerate a reality to the point that it backfires. It seems that they just can't help themselves.
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Ergun Caner controversy
- Thread starter Dale-c
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The really sad thing is that this is often the case. So many people with this problem exaggerate a reality to the point that it backfires. It seems that they just can't help themselves.
To those who support LU, it is seeking the truth and clarifying it. They did this with his LU bio. It has also been done on his own web page as well.
To those who want a pound of flesh, it is damage control.
But want do you want LU to do? Should they not correct his bio and repost it?
They are also investigating.
It is my opinion that Caner needs to be removed as President of the seminary. Can he still teach at LU? I do not know.
I think there is some good advise above. Yes, I think that while Liberty may have made errors in this situation, we need to give them the benefit of Christian Charity and trust. While we may disagree with Liberty on many issues, I think we should let them continue their investigation and expect they will walk in wisdom, integrity, and love through this process.
Before the internet, people could get away with this. But now, every sermon is taped or video taped. Every word can come back to haunt you!
It will be really interesting to see how LU handles this.
This is not about slander or libel, despite what Geisler thinks. This is about integrity and honesty. It does not matter who exposed this issue. What matters is how Caner and LU respond, individually and organizationally.
This could blow over rather quickly if he would just apologize without making excuses.
Sign me perplexed.
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Call it what it is, and let him take full responsibility for his actions.
It's interesting to remember what some folks have said on the issue.
Mr.Mitchell #9 : "Oh how liberals would love to take him down."
Mr.Mitchell #17 : "...unfounded and not credible allegations most likely because of Caners (sic) view of reformed theology."
Mr. Mitchell #32 : "NO Whit (sic) is driven by Caner's position on reformed theology."
Allan #50 : It is seriously dangerous dangerous stuff to presume to know the heart of someone...it is not for you to judge his heart in the matter [don't] judge the intent of his heart."
Mr.Mitchell #9 : "Oh how liberals would love to take him down."
Mr.Mitchell #17 : "...unfounded and not credible allegations most likely because of Caners (sic) view of reformed theology."
Mr. Mitchell #32 : "NO Whit (sic) is driven by Caner's position on reformed theology."
Allan #50 : It is seriously dangerous dangerous stuff to presume to know the heart of someone...it is not for you to judge his heart in the matter [don't] judge the intent of his heart."
Some of the issues given could easly be understood as forgetfulness..
others one could honestly question.
Anyone who deals with memory knows recollection is not always going to be the same. It will have varrying (sic)details, something remembered something forgetten.(sic) Police, phyciatrists,(sic) and attorneys deal with this a lot. Any story that can be remembered verbatem,(sic) all accounts and actions and items, perfectly - is one that was fabricated. Each telling should have some inconstencancies (sic)here and there. This is not to excuse things outside this realm, but explaining small things, ie.. like was he wearing his turban or not?
Still more interesting views of the past regarding Caner. This was from post #51.
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Why do people defend the indefensible?
A Sad Saga
Because they are as stubborn as Caner and they really haven't spent the time investigating the matter for themselves. They also make it into a Calvinistic vs. Arminian thing.
It really is wierd though when many of them say that we shouldn't judge Caner's heart. It's not a matter of judging his heart. His own words have done him in. This whole case is just saturated with evidence of his deceit. It is readily apparent that he has lied through his teeeth habitually for nearly a decade.
I really don't hold out much hope that Liberty's investigation will bring the truth out. Caner has known the truth for a long time and he still refuses to come clean. If indeed the board does not really do its job and his own church fails in this regard -- believe me this whole mess will not end. It will not be over.The secular media will be used as instruments of the Lord to humble him. The segment of the Christian community which has faced the truth of Caner's deeds has consistently urged him to come forward and admit all his lies in a comprehensive fashion. Now as each successive day passes without his repentance -- I don't quite see how his mentors of the Faith are actually taking him to task. He is still taking speaking engagements when he has absolutely no business in front of audiences except to admit his guilt.
He needs to get out of the limelight and get a job in a factory or something -- away from it all. His bragging must go -- his bombastic manner must cease. His celebrity must end.
Caner is not a victim here. He is the culprit.
Because they are as stubborn as Caner and they really haven't spent the time investigating the matter for themselves. They also make it into a Calvinistic vs. Arminian thing.
It really is wierd though when many of them say that we shouldn't judge Caner's heart. It's not a matter of judging his heart. His own words have done him in. This whole case is just saturated with evidence of his deceit. It is readily apparent that he has lied through his teeeth habitually for nearly a decade.
I really don't hold out much hope that Liberty's investigation will bring the truth out. Caner has known the truth for a long time and he still refuses to come clean. If indeed the board does not really do its job and his own church fails in this regard -- believe me this whole mess will not end. It will not be over.The secular media will be used as instruments of the Lord to humble him. The segment of the Christian community which has faced the truth of Caner's deeds has consistently urged him to come forward and admit all his lies in a comprehensive fashion. Now as each successive day passes without his repentance -- I don't quite see how his mentors of the Faith are actually taking him to task. He is still taking speaking engagements when he has absolutely no business in front of audiences except to admit his guilt.
He needs to get out of the limelight and get a job in a factory or something -- away from it all. His bragging must go -- his bombastic manner must cease. His celebrity must end.
Caner is not a victim here. He is the culprit.
I like LU, and it pains me to see them defend a proven liar. Caner has no right to be at LU anymore. He is hurting the integrity of the university. He brought this situation upon himself by telling lie after lie, and now he must face the consequences of his decisions.
Pro 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
Pro 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
It proves their similarity by their responses to sin.
He was promoted by man so God could bring him low and humble him.
I stated previously that Caner did not have to lie.But the more I think about this, he did have to lie. His understanding of the basics of Islam is woefully inadequate. It would be like a Christian encouraging someone to read Bible 3:15. It would be like a Christian stating that the Lord’s Prayer, “The Lord is my shepherd,” was foundational to my prayer life. It would be like a Christian stating that the Eucharist is a beautiful depiction of how a believer is baptized into the body of Christ. Ergun does not know what he is talking about. If a Christian stated the above, he would be laughed at if he presented himself as an expert in Christianity. So the more I think about it, Ergun Caner even lied about his knowledge of basic Islam. Sad.
Maybe LU alums need to start a campaign for truth and integrity in the President's Office at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.
Maybe LU alums need to start a campaign for truth and integrity in the President's Office at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.
But then, here comes Norm Geisler and John Ankerberg to the rescue. Geisler claims that Caner has been libeled and slandered. Ankerberg claims that Caner’s testimony is completely true. Both claims are completely and utterly false. Caner has not been libeled or slandered. He has been caught frabricating his background and knowledge of Islam. Caner’s testimony is so twisted that Ankerberg’s defense of Caner brings his own credibility into question. So is this what it means to be an apologist for Jesus Christ? Disregard the truth when lies have been uncovered? This is nothing but Christians acting badly for the sake of their money-making name brands. Just ask Mehmet.
So why are Geisler and Ankerberg covering for Caner? Could it be because they have a stake in the lies? Caner claims to have debated Abdul Saleeb. Geisler and R. C. Sproul have coauthored books with Abdul Saleeb. Ankerberg has coauthored books with Caner. There is a lot of money to be made in those books. But the real question remains, who is Abdul Saleeb? What if he is pseudonym? Or, worse yet, what if he doesn’t even exist? If Caner can fabricate his testimony, why can’t Geisler and Sproul fabricate an Arab convert? It is quite possible that the Caner lies are only the tip of the iceberg.
So why are Geisler and Ankerberg covering for Caner? Could it be because they have a stake in the lies? Caner claims to have debated Abdul Saleeb. Geisler and R. C. Sproul have coauthored books with Abdul Saleeb. Ankerberg has coauthored books with Caner. There is a lot of money to be made in those books. But the real question remains, who is Abdul Saleeb? What if he is pseudonym? Or, worse yet, what if he doesn’t even exist? If Caner can fabricate his testimony, why can’t Geisler and Sproul fabricate an Arab convert? It is quite possible that the Caner lies are only the tip of the iceberg.
If what we are hearing in public is true, imagine what is going on behind the scenes.
Tom Butler
New Member
What if Paul33 is lying? What if Abdul Saleeb is not a pseudonym, and is really a real person.? What if Geisler and Sproul are actually telling the truth and Paul 33 is making everything up?
What if Paul 33 is really a closet thespian and secretly peers out the window before going to bed?
And what if there's no iceberg?
See how one can slam somebody without citing an actual fact?
Some serious accusations have been made against Dr.Caner. Asking questions in this fashion is character assassination without a shred of proof. Stick to the facts.
There are an awful lot of factions meeting "pre SBConvention":
Support groups for those who overuse quotation marks;
Tim LaHaye hairpiece admirers;
"God Predestined us to be Arminians" (You'd feel right at home, Jerome);
Six Steps to John Ankerberg's hair;
Sampling group for George Barna's next Sampling group on who should be George Barna's next sampling group;
Guaranteed Evangelism success, version 967, brought to you by Lifeway;
"We hate the new NIV without even seeing it" group;
Plexiglass pulpit support group;
and finally,
How to Preach without really saying anything, by ____________;
Enjoy :laugh:
Support groups for those who overuse quotation marks;
Tim LaHaye hairpiece admirers;
"God Predestined us to be Arminians" (You'd feel right at home, Jerome);
Six Steps to John Ankerberg's hair;
Sampling group for George Barna's next Sampling group on who should be George Barna's next sampling group;
Guaranteed Evangelism success, version 967, brought to you by Lifeway;
"We hate the new NIV without even seeing it" group;
Plexiglass pulpit support group;
and finally,
How to Preach without really saying anything, by ____________;
Enjoy :laugh:
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