Baptism in the Spirit

[The Biblicist]

Boaz married Ruth and became the great grandmother of David.
What do you think you have proven by bringing up Ruth?
God had mercy on the Ninevites. What do you think you have proven by bringing them up?

He has proven that God did not just save Jews before Pentecost and there were more people of God than just ETHNIC NATIONAL Israel!

 

[The Biblicist]

Show exactly where I have done such a thing, show it, or repent of being a slanderous liar, a slanderous liar who enjoys the word ‘pervert.’.

I have already done that. Ephesians 2:12-19 is speaking about the same thing as Romans 11 and the gentiles.

Now the house of God has a commission to "all nations" as before Penteocost it did not have a commission to all nations.

God has now turned away from Israel AS A NATION but has not stopped saving INDIVDIUAL JEWS (Paul, etc.) and has turned his redemptive purposes to the GENTLE NATIONS whereas in the Old Testament his redemptive activity was primarily restricted after Jacob to the NATION of Israel without stopping to save INDIVIDUAL gentiles all the time.

Your problem is that you cannot understand what I just said. Read it until you understand what I said! Read it until you see that redemption within a NATION/NATIONS does not exclude INDIVIDUAL salvation outside NATION/NATIONS whether we are talking before or after the cross. If you don't understand that you will never understand either Ephesians 2 or Romans 11 or general salvation taught throughout the scriptures.

 

[Moriah]

Another bald face lie! Find any statement by me that I have EVER said gentiles were saved as NATIONS before the cross!

You are adding to you list of lies. First you lied by falsely accusing me that I did not believe Jesus had to come and die, and you made this false charge because of all things, I said they were saved by faith looking to the cross. Now you lie again!

Now quote where I said that gentiles were saved as NATIONS before the cross or repent of your false accusation!



Hebrews 4:2 says they were saved by the same gospel we are. READ IT!

Acts 10:43 says they had their sins remitted by faith just as we do. READ IT!

God does not have TWO Saviors, TWO gospels' TWO ways of salvation nor is there TWO different kinds of human beings. Go figure!




Either you cannot read or you cannot understand what you read! Tell me does Acts 10:43 says "SOME" prophets or "ALL" prophets? Does Acts 10:43 say that all the prophets gave witness to Christ??? Read it! Does Acts 10:43 say that what they ALL GAVE WITNESS TO was that "whosever believeth in his name shall receive remission of sins"???

Go back to sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.

Tell me, does Hebrews 4:2 says "unto us" and "as well as unto them" that "THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED"?????? Or does it say one kind of gospel was preached to them and another kind of gospel to us???

Go back to sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.







It is your mind that is twisted by false doctrine that you cannot even read English right in front of your nose. It is not a matter of interpetation but explicit clear unambigous statements that Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 make. Your mind is so irrational you cannot even read and makes sense of the words you read.

Go back to Sunday school and learn how to read the Bible.



Do you know what a "PROMISE" is? Apparently not! The coming Messiah Savior was PROMISED them in the gospel preached to them.

You wouldn't even believe Jesus if he told you that would you??? Read his lips because Jesus is calling you by name in these verses:

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?...........44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


What you need is for Christ to apply verse 45 to you!


No more discussion will be had with the likes of you! If you wish to remain ignorant then so be it.

You just keep repeating the same lies and false accusations repeatedly. Go reread what I wrote.
You teach falseness. The only good I see coming from you being here is that others and I correct what you teach.

 

[DHK]

Boaz married Ruth and became the great grandmother of David.
What do you think you have proven by bringing up Ruth?
God had mercy on the Ninevites. What do you think you have proven by bringing them up?

These were all Gentiles that God chose to save.
God did not just save Jews in the OT; he also saved Gentiles, even some of whom came into the ancestry of Christ!

 

[Moriah]

He has proven that God did not just save Jews before Pentecost and there were more people of God than just ETHNIC NATIONAL Israel!

You have got to be kidding.

 

[Moriah]

These were all Gentiles that God chose to save.
God did not just save Jews in the OT; he also saved Gentiles, even some of whom came into the ancestry of Christ!

The Ninevites were cruel to GOD"S CHILDREN.

Show me where the scriptures say the Ninevites were God's children.

You bringing up Ruth, who became part of the lineage through marriage of Boaz, and calling that proof that Gentiles were saved just as the Jews were, is ridiculous.

 

[Moriah]

You perverted those scriptures to deny that scores of INDIVIDUAL Gentiles living previous to the cross could not be saved or have their sins remitted, meaning they could not be justified by faith in the gospel as justification includes remission of sins (Rom. 4:4-8).

These are the scriptures that Biblicist said I perverted. All who can see, can see his error.

The Bible says Gentiles separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.

The Gentiles were the uncircumcised.

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ, Ephesians 2:13

The blood of Christ brought the Gentiles near! When did Jesus shed his blood, it was not in the Old Testament.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, Ephesians 2:14

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:15

Tell me, did Jesus make the two one with his flesh when he was crucified, or was the two one the whole time? You have been demanding that the Jews and Gentiles were one in Jesus since the beginning of time. You are speaking something opposite from the Word.

and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility, Ephesians 2:16.

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Tell me; was it through the gospel that the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, OR NOT? You say they were always heirs from the beginning, BUT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS THROUGH THE GOSPEL THEY BECAME HEIRS.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near, Ephesians 2:17.

For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit, Ephesians 2:18.

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, Ephesians 2:19.

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

Tell me, if Gentiles were always ‘in’ as you say, then why did Israel have to experience a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in?

 

[DHK]

The Ninevites were cruel to GOD"S CHILDREN.

Show me where the scriptures say the Ninevites were God's children.

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
--Salvation is of the Lord. He loved them; He redeemed them. In fact he sent Jonah to them with a message of repentance that they might have the opportunity to be saved. Once saved they too were God's people.

You bringing up Ruth, who became part of the lineage through marriage of Boaz, and calling that proof that Gentiles were saved just as the Jews were, is ridiculous.

Is it ridiculous?
She was from Moab, an idolatrous nation. Her sister-in-law, Orpah, went back to serving her idols. But Ruth clave to Naomi and began to worship Jehovah. She came out of an idolatrous Gentile nation. She was a Gentile.

So was Rahab the harlot.
--All of them: Gentiles that were converted to the Lord.

 

[The Biblicist]

The Ninevites were cruel to GOD"S CHILDREN.

Show me where the scriptures say the Ninevites were God's children.

You bringing up Ruth, who became part of the lineage through marriage of Boaz, and calling that proof that Gentiles were saved just as the Jews were, is ridiculous.

Do you believe man is born into this world spiritually dead, separated from God by sin regardless if he is born before or after the cross?

Do you believe human beings before the cross have the same sin nature as human beings after the cross?

Do you believe that gentiles before the cross have the same sin nature as Jews before the cross?

Do you believe all human beings are born into this world as children of Satan and must be born again to become children of God by new birth?

 

[Moriah]

Do you believe man is born into this world spiritually dead, separated from God by sin regardless if he is born before or after the cross?

Do you believe human beings before the cross have the same sin nature as human beings after the cross?

Do you believe that gentiles before the cross have the same sin nature as Jews before the cross?

Do you believe all human beings are born into this world as children of Satan and must be born again to become children of God by new birth?

Man must be taught about God.

 

[Moriah]

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
--Salvation is of the Lord. He loved them; He redeemed them. In fact he sent Jonah to them with a message of repentance that they might have the opportunity to be saved. Once saved they too were God's people.

Is it ridiculous?
She was from Moab, an idolatrous nation. Her sister-in-law, Orpah, went back to serving her idols. But Ruth clave to Naomi and began to worship Jehovah. She came out of an idolatrous Gentile nation. She was a Gentile.

So was Rahab the harlot.
--All of them: Gentiles that were converted to the Lord.

Are you know conceding that they had to convert to Judaism?

 

[DHK]

Your argument is ridiculous. IMHO.

And yet you can't refute it. Disparaging remarks is the best you can do, and all the board can see that.

 

[Moriah]

And yet you can't refute it. Disparaging remarks is the best you can do, and all the board can see that.

You have not proven that Gentiles are God’s children in the Old Testament.

Do not be so sure that everyone agrees with you.

Are you conceding that a person had to convert to Judaism?

 

[DHK]

Are you know conceding that they had to convert to Judaism?

You are like a chameleion that keeps changing positions.

The Ninevites were converted to the Lord, but not to Judaism.

Ruth and Rahab were Gentiles. They were saved and converted to Judaism. But they were still Gentiles, nevertheless. You are a Gentile too. But a Gentile that is now a Christian, just as they were Gentiles turned to Jehovah. There is no difference.

 

[Moriah]

You are like a chameleion that keeps changing positions.

Stop trying to be slanderous.

The Ninevites were converted to the Lord, but not to Judaism.

The Bible does not say the Ninevites were God’s children. So stop saying it. I do not want your words; I only want God’s Word.
God had mercy on the Ninevites, when they repented. Show me where they got circumcised and made sin offerings. Show me were the scriptures say they were God's people.

Ruth and Rahab were Gentiles. They were saved and converted to Judaism.

Now you say they converted to Judaism. So then, they were no longer Gentile sinners.

But they were still Gentiles, nevertheless.

They were not “Gentiles, nevertheless.” They were converts to Judaism.

You are a Gentile too. But a Gentile that is now a Christian, just as they were Gentiles turned to Jehovah. There is no difference.

There is a difference. I did not have to do the works of the law. The Jews and the converts did. The works of the law is a written code with regulations, for worship, and an earthly sanctuary. Gifts and sacrifices were required for worship and the earthly sanctuary. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washing---external regulations.
Are you discounting all the Jews had to do just to worship God?
The Gentiles did not do those things, and they were not saved then as the Jews, as you and Biblicist are trying to say.

 

[The Biblicist]

Man must be taught about God.

I did not ask you if man must be taught by God.

I asked you if man was born with a sinful nature and spiritually separated from God.

I asked you if man is born into this world as a child of Satan and needs to be born again to become a child of God.

 

[The Biblicist]

Stop trying to be slanderous.

The Bible does not say the Ninevites were God’s children. So stop saying it. I do not want your words; I only want God’s Word.
God had mercy on the Ninevites, when they repented. Show me where they got circumcised and made sin offerings. Show me were the scriptures say they were God's people.


Now you say they converted to Judaism. So then, they were no longer Gentile sinners.

They were not “Gentiles, nevertheless.” They were converts to Judaism.

There is a difference. I did not have to do the works of the law. The Jews and the converts did. The works of the law is a written code with regulations, for worship, and an earthly sanctuary. Gifts and sacrifices were required for worship and the earthly sanctuary. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washing---external regulations.
Are you discounting all the Jews had to do just to worship God?
The Gentiles did not do those things, and they were not saved then as the Jews, as you and Biblicist are trying to say.

Adam, Abel, Seth, Noah and Abraham were not Jews. Adam, Abel, Seth, and Noah were not circumcised and Abraham was justified by faith before circumcision. They were not Israelites.

Were they born into this world as children of Satan? Were they born into this world with a sinful nature? Were they born into this world "ungodly"? Were they born into this world "lost"? Were they born into this wold spiritually separated from God?

Don't give me some generalized answer that has nothing to with my questions but answer the questions.

 

[DHK]

The Bible does not say the Ninevites were God’s children. So stop saying it. I do not want your words; I only want God’s Word.

Here is God's Word:

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

God had mercy on the Ninevites, when they repented. Show me where they got circumcised and made sin offerings. Show me were the scriptures say they were God's people.

When a person is saved they become a child of God. God is not partial. If he is, then you don't serve the same God I do. For the Bible says:

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
--There is no partiality with God, no variableness, no shadow of turning. He doesn't discriminate. They didn't have to convert to Judaism; they only had to believe in God.

Now you say they converted to Judaism. So then, they were no longer Gentile sinners.

They would always be Gentiles, but saved Gentiles.

They were not “Gentiles, nevertheless.” They were converts to Judaism.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin"? You think that the answer is yes, but it is not. A Gentile is a Gentile. He is born that way, and one is born a Jew. Both must be "born again."

There is a difference. I did not have to do the works of the law. The Jews and the converts did.

There is no difference when it comes to salvation; for not all Israel is Israel. We all are saved by faith.

The works of the law is a written code with regulations, for worship, and an earthly sanctuary. Gifts and sacrifices were required for worship and the earthly sanctuary. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washing---external regulations.

In spite of it all they were still saved by faith, even as the Bible declares that Abraham was saved by faith.

Are you discounting all the Jews had to do just to worship God?

The Jews had to believe in Jehovah. They were saved by faith, as we are.

The Gentiles did not do those things, and they were not saved then as the Jews, as you and Biblicist are trying to say.

One is saved by faith and faith alone--both in the NT and in the OT.

 

[Moriah]

I did not ask you if man must be taught by God.

That is my answer to your questions.

I asked you if man was born with a sinful nature and spiritually separated from God.

If we have to be taught about God, then what do you think.

I asked you if man is born into this world as a child of Satan and needs to be born again to become a child of God.

I would not say, “Man is born into this world as a child of Satan.” I do not find such a thing in the Bible.
I would say we were once enemies of God, and children of wrath, but not a child of Satan.
However, there are those the Bible says are children of the devil.

 

[The Biblicist]

That is my answer to your questions.


I would say we were once enemies of God, and children of wrath, but not a child of Satan.
.

Are ALL HUMANS born into this world as "enemies of God, and children of wrath"?

Was Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham born into the world as "enemies of God, an children of wrath"?

Were all Israelites from the twelve children of Jacob till now born into this world as "enemies of God and children of wrath"?