What is the capitol of Israel?

[carpro]

Bottom line:

A country has the right to choose it's own capital. If we decide to move our capital to Omaha, Nebraska, then our capital will be Omaha, no matter what the rest of the world thinks.

The Israelis say their capital is Jerusalem.

What we think, politically, doesn't really matter. Romney seems to understand that, just as Obama has in the past.

 

[LadyEagle]

This week we marked the 45th anniversary of the unification of Jerusalem. Israel designated Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, yet most countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv due to ongoing political debate with the Palestinians. This has given rise to an unprecedented situation whereby a sovereign state – Israel – is denied the diplomatic right to choose the location of its capital city.

The U.S. Congress sought to reverse this travesty with the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, passed by overwhelming bipartisan majority in both the House and Senate. The act states that “Jerusalem should be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel and the United States Embassy in Israel should be established in Jerusalem no later than May 31, 1999.”

Since then, a parade of U.S. presidents have promised to uphold this pledge. But since the congressional act allows the President to implement a waiver at six-month intervals, that’s exactly what has happened every six months since 1995.

http://unitedwithisrael.org/jerusalem-or-tel-aviv/

The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995[1] is a public law of the United States passed by the 104th Congress on October 23, 1995. It was passed for the purposes of initiating and funding the relocation of the Embassy of the United States in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, no later than May 31, 1999, and attempted to withhold 50 percent of the funds appropriated to the State Department specifically for ‘‘Acquisition and Maintenance of Buildings Abroad’’ as allocated in fiscal year 1999 until the United States Embassy in Jerusalem had officially opened.[2] The act also called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city and for it to be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel. Israel's declared capital is Jerusalem, but this is not internationally recognized, pending final status talks in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The United States has withheld recognition of the city as Israel's capital. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[3] and the House (374–37).[4]

Since passage, the law has never been implemented, because of opposition from Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama, who view it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch’s constitutional authority over foreign policy; they have consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

 

[carpro]

Excellent information ,LE. :applause:

This president , for some reason, is afraid to articulate our policy. And if Romney is elected, and he does not sign the waiver, Jerusalem will be the officially recognized capital of Israel. He can make it happen if he wants to.

 

[preachinjesus]

That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:2-4

Well if you want we can both just post innane Scripture passages that have nothing to do with the topic....or we can stick to the finer points of this discussion. Just sayin...

So you don't think Israel is present in the Book of Revelation? (smh)

No I didn't say that. If you need to, just go back and read my post...slowly at first. My point is that Israel is not present in a futuristic sense and only referred to historically. There is no eschatological future for genetic Jews who don't accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah while in this life. Likewise there is no eschatological future for a reconstituted Israel. This is only found in overblown dispensational eschatology. When Israel is referred to in Revelation (which is a lot like the rest of the NT) it is drawing on a reference or extending and allusion. The book of Revelation is heavily influenced by Jewish apocalyptic literature from the first and pre-first century communities. The faithful Israelites who were believing in the Messiah in the OT times, prior to the New Covenant, have received eternal life...now the faithful believers in the New Covenant receive the same life.

 

[preachinjesus]

And everything you said disregards what Scripture says about them being brought back into their own land and that Scripture points to a NATION being born in one day.

Is there a Biblical history of a nation of Israel being re-established in one day?

Because Scripture is read as a whole, and as a whole Scripture points to the re-establishment of Israel.

Please show us the specific places you're talking about. Please don't include post-captivity passages either.

 

[Zaac]

Well if you want we can both just post innane Scripture passages that have nothing to do with the topic....or we can stick to the finer points of this discussion. Just sayin...



No I didn't say that. If you need to, just go back and read my post...slowly at first. My point is that Israel is not present in a futuristic sense and only referred to historically. There is no eschatological future for genetic Jews who don't accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah while in this life. Likewise there is no eschatological future for a reconstituted Israel. This is only found in overblown dispensational eschatology. When Israel is referred to in Revelation (which is a lot like the rest of the NT) it is drawing on a reference or extending and allusion. The book of Revelation is heavily influenced by Jewish apocalyptic literature from the first and pre-first century communities. The faithful Israelites who were believing in the Messiah in the OT times, prior to the New Covenant, have received eternal life...now the faithful believers in the New Covenant receive the same life.

Sounds like you're more caught up in schooling and what you've been told rather than what the word actually says. All this eschatological stuff has you sounding like the progressives.:laugh:

 

[righteousdude2]

Romney's Mormon Beliefs Came Through, Loud and CLear!

...I may not believe the Mormons are anything more than a cult, but at least they know their Bible, and they are supportive of Israel.

Chalk one up for Mitt! :wavey:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I agree that the White House spokesman should have given an answer.

I agree that the world, including the US should recognise Israel's choice of their capital. However, fear has more than once dictated US policy. It does it in Jerusalem, it did it with President Clinton in Somalia, and it did with President Reagan in the Lebanon.

I don't think President Obama deserves any more criticism than President Bush or Clinton, both of whom could have already done this.

I also know it is easier to talk as a candidate than act as president. I suspect that if Governor Romney is elected this issue will fade away into the woodwork and he will not be criticised because he is a Republican.

However, this is a political matter, not a religious one.

Even if I accept the contention that 'God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel' as applicable to the current State of Israel having the embassy in Tel Aviv instead of Jerusalem hardly amounts to a curse.

But those words have nothing to do with the Zionist state created by the UN in 1948. It is a secular, political state with its own agenda of self interest.

The 'born in a day claim' from Isaiah 66 is simply biblical misinterpretation. No matter how hard one tries they cannot make it fit. Any nation which declares their independence is, in that same sense 'born in a day.' Israel's birth took many years of hard work and political effort. Contrary to what Isaiah 66.7 says the birth of Israel was not accomplished without labour pains. Over six million innocent Jews made the labour that resulted in modern Israel's birth terribly and tragically painful.

Israel deserves American support because she has proven herself a long term ally. She deserves for Washington to recognise her capital because she is an ally. President Clinton should have done it. President Bush should have done it. President Obama should do. If elected President Romney should follow through and do it.

But God is not going to punish Americans because her government does not recognise the right city as capital of modern Israel.

Jerusalem will always be the spiritual capital of spiritual Israel. All the rest is secular politics.

 

[LadyEagle]

Sounds like you're more caught up in schooling and what you've been told rather than what the word actually says. All this eschatological stuff has you sounding like the progressives.:laugh:

It's called Replacement Theology, Zaac. Originated with some early church fathers such as Augustine. (and the Catholic church)

http://carm.org/questions-replacement-theology

I had never heard of Replacement Theology (raised Baptist & Baptist church memberships) until I came to this board.

 

[preachinjesus]

Sounds like you're more caught up in schooling and what you've been told rather than what the word actually says. All this eschatological stuff has you sounding like the progressives.:laugh:

Yeah, theology...whew...it's a humdinger ain't it...

At this point you're clearly not able to substantively interact with anything I'm posting. I renew my call on you show us your points from specific Scriptural interaction.

 

[LadyEagle]

Excellent information ,LE. :applause:

This president , for some reason, is afraid to articulate our policy. And if Romney is elected, and he does not sign the waiver, Jerusalem will be the officially recognized capital of Israel. He can make it happen if he wants to.

My belief is that this president is a muslim (in islam, you are a muslim if your father is a muslim and that is how the muslim world sees him, plus he bowed to the Saudi king, sending a coded message to the islamic world early in his presidency, first 100 days). See my link on obama's record on Israel:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=80381

One BIG thing that disturbed me about Bush was him (US) partnering with the UN, EU, and Russia, the "quartet" for the Road Map for Israel, or Road Map from Hell, as I call it.

The elected leader of the Palestinians, President Mahmoud Abbas provided the funds to carry out the Black September attack when the Israeli Olympians were murdered in Munich. These are the same terrorist leaders we have bowed to as a nation because of the Political Correctness of our leaders.

I believe the situation will change with a President Romney, not because he is a good guy, but a relationship with Israel (political and spiritual) is at the core of Mormon beliefs. I would have to research further, but I am not aware that the Mormon church believes in Replacement Theology.

GW Bush would because he was an Episcopalian and Methodist (as I recall) whose denominations believe in Replacement Theology. Clinton, well, what can we say about Bill Clinton? Yassar Arafat was a terrorist who signed the "Peace Accords."

Yet every day, even with these "peace accords" missles are fired into Israel, every day. Every day.

Gaza - an interesting note, when the Israelis gave up Gaza under pressure from GW Bush and the quartet, they lost revenue, millions of dollars of revenue, food, and more. Interestingly, the very day after Israel withdrew from Gaza, displacing their own citizens, a tropical storm started to brew named Katrina. How many thousands of citizens were displaced in the US due to that little tropical storm, Katrina.

I already know I will be called a nut job by some who believe in Replacement Theology on this board, but I can start another thread and show you cause and effect from the US government (and perhaps others) and Israel, remembering whoever "blesses Israel will be blessed, whoever curses Israel will be cursed..." when I get the time to research it for you. Or you can research it on your own. The information is available. - LE

PS: I do not want this thread to veer off into a Replacement Theology vs premill, postmill or amill thread because of past food fights in other forums, I only pasted the link for informative puposes only. If a discussion is to ensue about eschatology, please take it to the appropriate forums above where you will be joined by grasshopper and others.

 

[Zaac]

Perhaps Mitt Romney believes in his heart that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, which goes along with Mormon teaching.

I believe Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and I am not a Mormon. There are many evangelical Christians (not on this board it seems) who believe Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and prophecy for the end times (fig leaves) regarding Israel becoming a nation in 1948, the clock started ticking.

BTW, Kudos, Zaac. Agree with you 100% on this topic. See you at the Rapture. :thumbs:

AMEN!!! Looking forward to seeing Jesus and leaving all this mess behind. :laugh:

 

[Zaac]

Please show us the specific places you're talking about. Please don't include post-captivity passages either.

Umm, you're not the king. You don't dictate what passages get posted. Frame YOUR conversation. You don't get to frame mine.:wavey:

 

[Zaac]

But God is not going to punish Americans because her government does not recognise the right city as capital of modern Israel.

Jerusalem will always be the spiritual capital of spiritual Israel. All the rest is secular politics.

And I don't believe that you read anywhere that anyone said THAT. However the current administration's very public refusal to recognize the capital of Israel that Israel recognizes highlights the administration's continued hostility towards Israel.

And for THIS, the continued animosity towards Israel, God's hand will come against the US, the nation, in some form.

 

[Zaac]

Yeah, theology...whew...it's a humdinger ain't it...

At this point you're clearly not able to substantively interact with anything I'm posting. I renew my call on you show us your points from specific Scriptural interaction.

At this point, and after reading the link Lady Eagle posted (thanks LadyE), I don't need to substantively or otherwise interact with you or anything you're posting.

There's no difference between this replacement theology than is any of the other false teaching that centers around not dealing with the words on the page.

So ta ta.:wavey:

 

[Zaac]

My belief is that this president is a muslim (in islam, you are a muslim if your father is a muslim and that is how the muslim world sees him, plus he bowed to the Saudi king, sending a coded message to the islamic world early in his presidency, first 100 days). See my link on obama's record on Israel:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=80381

One BIG thing that disturbed me about Bush was him (US) partnering with the UN, EU, and Russia, the "quartet" for the Road Map for Israel, or Road Map from Hell, as I call it.

The elected leader of the Palestinians, President Mahmoud Abbas provided the funds to carry out the Black September attack when the Israeli Olympians were murdered in Munich. These are the same terrorist leaders we have bowed to as a nation because of the Political Correctness of our leaders.

I believe the situation will change with a President Romney, not because he is a good guy, but a relationship with Israel (political and spiritual) is at the core of Mormon beliefs. I would have to research further, but I am not aware that the Mormon church believes in Replacement Theology.

GW Bush would because he was an Episcopalian and Methodist (as I recall) whose denominations believe in Replacement Theology. Clinton, well, what can we say about Bill Clinton? Yassar Arafat was a terrorist who signed the "Peace Accords."

Yet every day, even with these "peace accords" missles are fired into Israel, every day. Every day.

Gaza - an interesting note, when the Israelis gave up Gaza under pressure from GW Bush and the quartet, they lost revenue, millions of dollars of revenue, food, and more. Interestingly, the very day after Israel withdrew from Gaza, displacing their own citizens, a tropical storm started to brew named Katrina. How many thousands of citizens were displaced in the US due to that little tropical storm, Katrina.

I already know I will be called a nut job by some who believe in Replacement Theology on this board, but I can start another thread and show you cause and effect from the US government (and perhaps others) and Israel, remembering whoever "blesses Israel will be blessed, whoever curses Israel will be cursed..." when I get the time to research it for you. Or you can research it on your own. The information is available. - LE

PS: I do not want this thread to veer off into a Replacement Theology vs premill, postmill or amill thread because of past food fights in other forums, I only pasted the link for informative puposes only. If a discussion is to ensue about eschatology, please take it to the appropriate forums above where you will be joined by grasshopper and others.

Excellent informative post!!!:applause:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

And I don't believe that you read anywhere that anyone said THAT. However the current administration's very public refusal to recognize the capital of Israel that Israel recognizes highlights the administration's continued hostility towards Israel.

And for THIS, the continued animosity towards Israel, God's hand will come against the US, the nation, in some form.

I am interested in your view of Isaiah 66.7 which says, according to your interpretation of the passage, that Israel's birth would be without labour pains. Yet, 6 million Jews died to prepare for it and the country was attacked the supposed 'day of birth.' I don't see how that fits the rest of your interpretation of Isaiah 66.

 

[Zaac]

I am interested in your view of Isaiah 66.7 which says, according to your interpretation of the passage, that Israel's birth would be without labour pains. Yet, 6 million Jews died to prepare for it and the country was attacked the supposed 'day of birth.' I don't see how that fits the rest of your interpretation of Isaiah 66.

Where have I said Israel's birth would be without labor pains? Pick a version of 66:7 and I'll address it.

And I didn't give you an interpretation of Isaiah 66. I told you what a VERSE says and that verse is applicable to the creation of Israel in one day.

 

[preachinjesus]

Umm, you're not the king. You don't dictate what passages get posted. Frame YOUR conversation. You don't get to frame mine.:wavey:

At this point, and after reading the link Lady Eagle posted (thanks LadyE), I don't need to substantively or otherwise interact with you or anything you're posting.

There's no difference between this replacement theology than is any of the other false teaching that centers around not dealing with the words on the page.

So ta ta.:wavey:

Class, here we have two examples of the "Artful Dodge" attempt at avoiding conversations. This argumentative fallacy is often employed by individuals who either are cornered and know they cannot fully respond coherently and maintain their position...or have been bested and are looking for a way out of the discussion. There are others reasons some employ this tactic, but they all trace back to a lack of intellectual rigor or honesty.



..:::...
You can either show evidence for your bloviated position or just run and hide. I don't care either way. At this point you're little more than a rhetorical stuffed shirt who makes a lot of sound but has little substance. It's common around here so you've got friends, but it still shows your true colors.

So put up a robust defense or run away...I'll be hanging out and not holding my breath.

 

[Zaac]

Class, here we have two examples of the "Artful Dodge" attempt at avoiding conversations.

In my neck of the woods we refer to this type of behavior as someone whose gone to sniffing himself.

This argumentative fallacy is often employed by individuals who either are cornered and know they cannot fully respond coherently and maintain their position...or have been bested and are looking for a way out of the discussion. There are others reasons some employ this tactic, but they all trace back to a lack of intellectual rigor or honesty

.

This first semester philosophy of religion word speak along with words like heiferdust, and red herring, and strawman, and fill-in-the-blank fallacy sits right over there in the corner with progressive terminology and reflects nothing but a schooling that some seem to think others are as impressed by as they seem to be.

You can either show evidence for your bloviated position or just run and hide. I don't care either way. At this point you're little more than a rhetorical stuffed shirt who makes a lot of sound but has little substance. It's common around here so you've got friends, but it still shows your true colors.

:laugh: I don't recall asking for input from any particular person.

So put up a robust defense or run away...I'll be hanging out and not holding my breath.

Opinions need defense. The truth of God just repeats itself. :laugh: