So, you think Paul lied when he said "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we have set our trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."? (1 Timothy 4:10)
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John Calvin - Jesus Died For the Whole Human Race
- Thread starter Martin Andrews
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Yes, at the very time the rest of them were celebrating the first Lord's Supper Judas was, at that very moment, betraying Him to those who would kill him. He was no longer in the upper room. He was presently, actively betraying Jesus. Just as the bible says.
Mr Cassidy, you must be the greatest TWISTER of what the Bible teaches. I have nothing further to say to you, as you are not being honest with the Word of God. Period!
You are the one who pointed out it was present, active. Judas was in the act of betraying Jesus when the Lord's Supper was instituted. You, yourself, made that point for me. Thank you. You proved my point.
This tift you and TC are having is a red herring.
No one is saved by partaking in communion so it doesn't matter if Judas was at the sadir meal or not. It doesn't matter if he ripped off some bread and drank wine at the meal with Jesus. Those actions or inactions have nothing to do with salvation.
The argument you two are having is irrelevant to the topic.
The argument is more applicable to the "open communion" or "closed communion" debate. (And probably belongs in a thread of its own.)
But Martin is an expert at throwing in a red herring when he cannot counter a scriptural argument.
So God intendd the Death of Jesus to actually provide atonement for and to save all sinners then?
With repeated quotes like this, you are not long for this site.
Now, i started a thread i was hoping you would engage me in. It is titled 'A carry over thread.'
You game?
Jesus said that he laid down His life for his sheep, to just the ones that the Father were to give Him, correct? Either the father intended to have all sinners saved by the Deayj of Christ, or he did not!
Discussing the Word of God is NOT a GAME!
Why don't you READ the Bible. We are NOT talking about simply partaking of the Lord's Supper. the account as given by Luke shows very clearly that Jesus also told Judas, This is the blood of the New Testament shed for YOU (plural) ALL 12 of His disciples. Judas was still at the table AFTER this was done, and therefore Jesus would have HAD to have included ALL in His death. This is what the Bible says. Not Augustine, Calvin, Martin, or anyone else!
If you were to read your Bible, you will very clearly see that Jesus did not die ONLY for His sheep. It is very easy to take a text and use it for support for a pet doctrine, but the rest of Scripture is AS IMPORTANT.
The rest of the NT pretty much all says the same thing here that I am!
Jesus called Judas a Devil, and SATAN Himself entered into Him, so doubt that he was included!
Please don't talk foolishly! Jesus here very clearly says that He died also for Judas. If you Calvinist's have a problem with this, then take it up with Jesus. I CANNOT understand why Calvinism HATES the world of sinners so much, as they keep on insisting that Jesus does not love or care for the whole world, because He did not include them in His Atonement? If He did, then it could only be because the WHOLE WORLD of sinners have the God-given opportunity to repent and accept the salvation provided by the death of Jesus Christ. There is no doubt in my mind, that the Lord HATES the teaching that He died only for the elect.. He came to SAVE SINNERS says the Bible, which must include the WHOLE WORLD, otherwise if it only includes the elect, then what of the non-elect, what are they, if not sinners?
RUBBISH!
Calviniist would agree with you that Jesus died for all, but that God intended his death to save some, not all!
How many dudes were in the room Marty? Does the "you" fit as a universal statement?
Obviously you (singular) think it does. Sadly Judas died in sin. Thus, God would be less than all powerful if He said Judas was covered by Jesus blood, but ultimately Judas wasn't. Your God would be a weak liar who couldn't or refused to keep his word. If that's the God you want to worship then so be it. My God is all powerful. He keeps His word and He promises that He will never leave me nor forsake me.
My pity for you increases, Marty.
So according to Calvinism, Jesus and the Father are NOT in agreement about who should be saved? What rubbish!
This is the most half-wit thing that I have ever heard! Jesus Christ came to die for the whole world, and then the Father says that He does not intend that the whole world Jesus died for, to be saved. This, my friend makes God in to a deceiver!
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