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John Calvin - Jesus Died For the Whole Human Race

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Martin Andrews, Apr 2, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Whatever God intends to happen, does happen correct?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, they both agree that ONLY those whom the father give to Him will get saved!
     
  3. Rlee

    Rlee Member
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    John 6:37, some versions translate this as present or future tense, "those the Father gives me" and others as past tense, "those the Father has given me". Does anyone know offhand which of these is more accurate and would that play a part in the discussion here?
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Present, active, indicative.
     
  5. Rlee

    Rlee Member
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    I thought that might be the case. Thank you sir.
     
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Marty seems to be a universalist. He promotes the idea that God will eventually save people while they are in hell. That's a universalist belief. According to a universalist, given enough time of suffering even Hitler will be welcome into heaven.
    His cult like insistence on him being absolutely being correct or you are a reprobate is interesting given his penchant for universalism. He rejects others views, even respected theologians, pastors and scholars while demanding that only he is correct. That sounds like an intrabiblical cult.
     
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  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I know its not a game. In America, me asking you if you are game, means are you up to the task.
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Colossians 1
    16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

    Name something Good that is not a gift from God. You couldn't exist one moment if not by grace of God.

    I don't divide my own cells, God does that for me.


    I say God loves you, will you call me a liar for it or do I speak the truth?

    I could tell your own child that God loves them something you never going to do in your life.



    This is an observation, You don't know God, you would not know love if it slapped you upside your head.


    Matthew 5

    43“You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44“But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47“If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


    Jesus Christ points at what God does himself is the correct method. This is very basic Christianity.



    Google Calvinism Love your enemies. And its like "DO WHAT?" Are we allowed to do that?

    Then google Baptist love your enemies sermon here, sermon there. (all Christians)




    No subject makes Calvinist more sick then Love and Mercy.

    If I had a dime for every time a Calvinist preached on loving your enemies I'D be BROKE.




    We both have different views of destruction of evil, I think its when you finally have a heart and you think its when I'm finally dead.
     
  9. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    You babble utilyan.

    Of course God loves me. He sees His Son's atonement for me and has adopted me. What Father doesn't love His children?

    Yes, my position before God is only by God's grace. If I relied upon my self, I would be immediately condemned by my own filthiness.

    Your judgment and condemnation of me is something the accuser does, utilyan. Do you recall whom the Bible identifies as the accuser of the saints?

    Indeed, I fail miserably on a daily basis when I compare my actions to the holiness of God. I stand before God condemned by my actions, yet forgiven by Yeshua's atonement for my sin.
    I am saved by grace, utilyan. I am grateful beyond expression. I would that God might show His grace to all, but that is God's sovereign right, not mine.
    Instead, as a servant of the Almighty, I seek to be obedient and follow Yeshua's message in the sermon on the mount. I seek to be an ambassador and share the message of reconciliation. I do this because I love my God who first chose to love me while I was dead in my sins.
    Utilyan, it is wonderful to follow God out of love rather than out of fear. It is fantastic to follow my shepherd because he cares for me, not because I feel he will harm me if I fail him. I am thrilled and awed by His grace.
    Your accusations mean nothing to me because I know my Redeemer and I hear his sweet voice of peace. May you know such joy.
     
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  10. SovereignGrace

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  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    May I know such joy? Does God want what you want? Why don't you just want what God wants or is what he wants too wicked for you?

    Does God love me? You wouldn't know if he loves anyone.

    You wouldn't know his will, because you don't know God. The best admission you've made. I know God, I know God's will, God is Love.

    I don't lay out the accusation that God's love for you is unknown or a mere possibility as if I didn't know his will. I know God loves you and your children.

    Yeah I know the Accuser, He thinks he is perfect, makes sure to have you believe you and all others are worthless, takes responsibility for no one and justifies on branding alone. Those who look to his will, his will is mystery.

    My Father's will is not mystery.

    Our Father will leave 99 perfect sheep to find the lost one, When are you going to know his will?

    " I would that God might show His grace to all"

    That's like a spark of the Holy Spirit and you think by murdering it you prove your place. You could be the one to show grace if having mercy on all didn't make you sick to your stomach, you might even ask God.


    One place I envy you is this, Your going to be a lot happier to meet Father then I am, because your idea of him is so horrid of monster.



    1 john 2
    3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.


    Where does it say to walk in the manner of God is to come to a stranger and flip a coin as to whether you should love him or not?

    You don't know God's will because you don't know God.
     
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps the moderators should determine if you need a time out.
     
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  13. Rlee

    Rlee Member
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    Does 1 Peter 3:15 mean anything to you? If you believe that some here are sincerely wrong, are you witnessing and defending your faith with gentleness, meekness, and respect? If you carry the greatest hope of all eternity and are indwelt by the living God, wouldn't your passion be to sway men rather than insult them?
     
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  14. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    The Lord knows them that are His and Jesus lost only one--Judas Iscariat

    This was long before Chauvin and Arminius.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
  15. Benoni

    Benoni Member
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    I just do not see it. Why does God need to torture trillions of lost souls for ever and ever with no mercy this sounds more like what allah would do not Jesus? Where is the love the Bible speaks of?
     
  16. reformed_baptist

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    So, is some of that sufficiency wasted then?
     
  17. Rlee

    Rlee Member
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    The love you're looking for is in the person of Christ in that He gave Himself as a ransom so that there would be redemption for those who believed in Him. John 15:13 testifies to this fact. Regarding God torturing trillions of lost souls forever with no mercy, consider the mercy that God is offering mankind while on this earth. Consider the rebellious hearts towards Him that last a lifetime. Lastly, consider that God must be just. He must keep His word regarding what He promises us and what He determines to be punishment for our rebellion. If He doesn't keep His word, He can't be trusted. Mankind is accountable for his actions and his choices and that is clear throughout scripture. If I disobeyed my parents when growing up, wasn't it my fault even when knowing what the punishment would be? I hope this helps.
     
  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    If someone steals from you, would you seek justice? When the robber was found, would you expect that the law regarding robbery was applied or should the robber be released with no penalty and no requirement to return what was stolen?

    What is more loving, requiring justice from law breaking or overlooking the breaking of a law?
     
  19. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You have to attack the character because you have no defense against the argument.


    You said "may I know such joy". Does God want that for me? Really?
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You can only sugar coat a swastika so much.

    The stance is pretend God's love of others is undetermined, unknown will. Right off the bat its a insult thrown at God.



    You know it is a sin to swallow a can of nails with the intent to suicide. If God did not love you that would not be a sin at all.

    His command is his want and desire. But somehow his command declares nothing.
     
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