So you are claiming τασσω does not have a verb form to be in a perfect middle participle.
1 Cor. 1:18-"are saved" or "are being saved"?
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by robycop3, Jul 4, 2021.
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
The Cambridge Greek Testament has it right
καὶ ἐπίστευσαν ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον, and as many as were ordained unto eternal life believed. In the controversies on predestination and election this sentence has constantly been brought forward. But it is manifestly unfair to take a sentence out of its context, and interpret it as if it stood alone. In Act_13:46 we are told that the Jews had adjudged themselves unworthy of eternal life, and all that is meant by the words in this verse is the opposite of that expression. The Jews were acting so as to proclaim themselves unworthy; the Gentiles were making manifest their desire to be deemed worthy. The two sections were like opposing troops, ranged (τεταγμένοι = marshalled) by themselves, and to some degree, though not unalterably, looked upon as so arranged by God on different sides. Thus the Gentiles were ordering themselves, and were ordered unto eternal life. The text says no word to warrant us in thinking that none could henceforth change sides. Nor is the rendering ‘ordained’ necessarily an evidence of the Calvinistic bias of our translators. The same rendering is found in other English versions and the Rhemish, strange to say, is even stronger, having ‘pre-ordinate.’ -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Actually, in our ライフライン訳新約聖書 (Japanese Lifeline NT), We translated it: 救われている私たち, which can be back translated into English as either "we who are being saved." or "we who are saved" (condition of having been saved). There you go. Make the most of it. :)
Japanese verbal aspect is quite different from Greek. You can indicate either progressiveness or present condition in the same way, the "-te form" plus the helping verb, いる.
"Although tenses are few (only 2--JoJ), Japanese is extremely rich in verb forms that indicate moods or aspects of likeness, or belief on the part of the speaker, or appearances. Most of these are beyond the scope of this manual, but there is one such mood that is important and must be learned. This is a form which is called the probable mood. It indicates that action will probably occur, is probably occurring, may occur, etc."
Everett F. Bleiler, Essential Japanese Grammar, p. 35. -
SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Here is a reference for the meaning of mokusatsu: 黙殺 - Jisho.org -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The Greek speakers on this thread are pointing people to the original language God gave His New Testament in. God did not give His Word in English, but in koine Greek. Is that a problem to you? If so, then you are going against God Himself and complaining about the language He chose to give the NT in. That's rebellion.
I suspect that you don't speak any other language but English. That is usually the case with those who make statements like yours. God gave me ability in languages, so that I was able to learn Japanese well and lead a translation effort from the Greek NT into that language, the first translation of the TR Greek NT that was the source for the KJV NT into modern Japanese, and only the second such translation ever. (The first was in classical Japanese.) Apparently you don't appreciate the language skills God gives His translators and teachers. I now teach young people NT Greek, some of who will go on to translate the Word of God into languages that have no Bible at all. You should rejoice in that if you love Jesus and His Word.
As for those others who reference the Greek on this thread and others, I know them through this board. They have put in many hundreds of hours learning that language, and have gained expertise. Yet you criticize them, having put in no effort at all to learn the language God gave the NT in. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The church age is two thousand years old. During that time God has been sending out preachers to preach the gospel of God to the whole world and it, the gospel of God, is the theme of the 13 letters of Paul to the gentiles. That is the good news from God that he has provided a means of forgiveness of sin, (along with it's penalty, the second death in the lake of fire), through Jesus Christ, who died for all the world and propitiated God on our behalf, having exhausted his wrath against sins on him, and then raised him from the dead, .and he will receive any and all who will come to him in his name. This is the good news, glad tidings God wants all men to know.
You have to ask yourself why don't the Japanese have a bible after 2000 years of church history. If we learn nothing else from this fact it is that God has not trusted the Japanese, or the eastern nations, to believe his word and attempt to evangelize the world. It is a westerner who has shown up after all these years to try to get them a bible from God. Late is better than not at all. I wish you well.
God has entrusted the preaching to the western nations. He gave us his perfect word in due time. The way of God is to move from the east to the west. You can check the scriptures yourself to prove that is true. Now, after rambling a bit, my reason for opposing the new translations is because of the number of new translations and the frequency of producing new ones from the same manuscripts. This waters down the word of God and makes it less glorious. If you believe the KJV has out dated language, I get that. Updating the language is one thing. Varying as many as 65000 words between translations does not give the impression that translators have a reverence for the words of God and the different translation philosophies proves it. -
Most of the world does not know Greek, Koine or otherwise, nor ancient Hebrew or Aramaic. If God didn't have p[eople translate His word from those languages into others, most of us would be in the dark about His word. We'd be almost as bad off as the Europeans "back in the day" when the RCC didn't permit any translating of God's word into the prevalent languages in the lands under RCC sway, making the people entirely-dependent upon RCC clergy for hearing God's word. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
However, your post certainly looked like it was criticizing those of us on the BB who were posting concerning the Greek. I hope you weren't--that's an ignorant position, and most Baptists I know who love the KJV (myself included) are clear about the original Greek having the authority, not the KJV.
But now you've started talking about modern English translations, and you lost me there. I believe that there are way too many translations in English, and believe we have completely failed, especially as fundamental Baptists, in getting the Word of God into every nation. I've been asked before to work on a new English translation, but I will not do that. I would much rather do what I do: teaching future translators to reach the world for Christ by getting not only the Gospel, but the Word of God in every language. -
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