can I ask how to arrive at this? Surely the present participle here denotes "progress", and can only be viewed as in the imperfect?
1 Cor. 1:18-"are saved" or "are being saved"?
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by robycop3, Jul 4, 2021.
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
But hey, older sources are also available on this. A. T. Robertson, in his massive 1934 tome, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (p. 864) discusses the "Punctiliar (Aoristic) Present." He writes on that page, "The present is formed on punctiliar as well as linear roots. It is not wise therefore to define the pres. ind. as denoting 'action in progress.'" -
So Dan Wallace indicates our two words in our two verses are "Punctilar (Aoristic) Present (not a process)?
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
To them that are perishing (τοις μεν απολλυμενοις). Dative of disadvantage (personal interest). Present middle participle is here timeless, those in the path to destruction (not annihilation. See 2Th 2:10). Cf. 2Co 4:3.
But unto us which are being saved (τοις σωζομενοις ημιν). Sharp contrast to those that are perishing and same construction with the articular participle. No reason for the change of pronouns in English. This present passive participle is again timeless. Salvation is described by Paul as a thing done in the past, "we were saved" (Ro 8:24), as a present state, "ye have been saved" (Ep 2:5), as a process, "ye are being saved" (1Co 15:2), as a future result, "thou shalt be saved" (Ro 10:9).
Marvin Vincent - Word Studies
To them that perish (τοῖς ἀπολλυμένοις)
Lit., that are perishing. So Rev. The present participle denotes process: they who are on the way to destruction. Compare 2Co 2:15.
Which are saved (τοῖς σωζομένοις)
Rev., being saved: in process of salvation. -
SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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16 Take heed to thyself, and to thy teaching. Continue in these things; for in doing this thou shalt save both thyself and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
P. S. None of the other grammars I have address this specific issue in 1 Cor. 1:18, either. -
What that tells me is that the 1901 ASV revisers believed it could go either way, as far as translation is concerned, and that the majority must have preferred "that perish/are saved" over "are perishing/are being saved." -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
More sources:
"In the present tense there is in Greek no distinction between I loose, which simply represents the action as taking place in present time, and I am loosing, which calls attention to the continuance of the action" (J. Gresham Machen, New Testament Greek for Beginners, 21-22).
."Durative" present and "conative" or "aoristic," or "punctiiar" action (Blass & Debrunner, A Greek Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, trans. by Funk, 166-167). -
SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Specifically on the present participle, Wallace's advanced grammar says, "The aspect of the present participle can be diminished if the particular context requires it. Thus, for example, ὁ βαπτίζων in Mark 1:4 does not mean 'the one who continually baptizes' but simply 'the baptizer.' Indeed, it cannot mean this in Mark 6:14, for otherwise John would be baptizing without a head" (p. 620).
P. S. Machen did not specifically comment on 1 Cor. 1:18, so your comment on him is not germane, though I recognize your previous quotes from Robertson and Vincent to be a contribution. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
The greater majority of the English Versions agree with the NKJV! Which is right here
1 Corinthians 1:18 Parallel: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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