I'm sorry, but unless you're willing to show that you're sincere about having a conversation by answering my questions, I'm not really interested in answering yours.
To be honest, I believe you're just a troll like Annsi. My questions to you were rhetorical, to point out the logical inconsistencies in your posts.
10 of my favorite warning Scriptures to Christians vs. OSAS
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Jun 22, 2013.
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Evangelist7, tell me, Why is it you could quote not one 'warning' that God gave to the hopeless, to the reprobate?
Hey?!
If you knew the Scriptures and its Truth you would have known it is because God cares about and for his elect, to see them through ... and none else or rather to see the rest - the reprobates - get their self-deserved reward in their damnation. That’s why you won’t find such clear warnings in the Scriptures for the lost and damned as those warnings God had given his children because He saved them and will not that they loose their salvation.
While God's 'warnings' for the reprobate are assurances of their final REWARD in hell, his 'warnings' to his elect are exercises for their improvement and perseverance in the Faith.
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They have the right heart attitude to be really co-operative in their sanctification, etc.
But, it's the other BACs that I'm concerned with.
That's 2 types of BACs: elect and non-elect, perhaps akin to the wheat and the tares.
I haven't separated the passages into reprobate vs. non-reprobate.
Perhaps I should try.
But, IMO, all of the warnings and threats are to keep ALL Christians,
and even wanna-be Christians everywhere, from being reprobate.
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I took the scripture you posted and broke it down line by line proving "faith alone" and "hope" is in the "glory of God", Jesus Christ, not a hope I get saved hope.
Now it is your turn to break down the passage and prove it does NOT conclude justification is by faith, and prove that the hope the passage speaks of is a "hope I get saved" kind of hope.
It is appearing that you do not care to debate here on the debate board. -
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our sanctification process unto holiness will result in our being like Him!
I thank you for reminding me!
And you can thank me for reminding you!
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The hope stuff was a late after thought, and I don't wish to focus on it.
I'm really only interested in the 65 warnings against OSAS.
Let's move in.
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Hope is nothing without a subject matter, it is meaningless unless directed towards a person, place or thing.
The passage you presented for debate speaks of the sinner being justified by faith. This is a good place to begin to understand all those other passages you think are speaking of losing salvation.
So please review the passage and my exposition, and either concede the points or show us how it is saying something different than what I have seen and stated.
Come on brother! Surely you are not gong to go down on the first passage you put up for deliberation. That would be a good thing, for the Word of God and Truth, but I thought surely you had answers ready for such challenges. But I do pray that you will repent of this doctrine you hold and begin a journey of preaching the sure word of the Lord! :love2: We all need to be edified, for we are on the same team!!! :thumbsup: -
Steaver, I shall repeat myself ...
The hope stuff was a late after thought, and I don't wish to focus on it.
I'm only interested in the 65 warnings against OSAS in the other thread
... and the 10 warnings against OSAS in this thread.
It certainly is very possible that I have made a few poor choices in the 65,
but people need to realize that ... if they can find JUST ONE relevant passage,
then they have discovered for themselves that OSAS IS A FALSE DOCTRINE!
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
And you can be sure some will 'discover' at least one ...
To quote you,
<God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them!> -
Is it wise to just throw out a bunch of scriptures to see if one sticks? Is that holding the Word of God with the fear of the LORD in high regards?
Now about the hope issue. I believe you do see how hope needs to have an object to which hope is directed towards otherwise it is meaningless. You cannot just tell someone you have hope and they say in what and you say just hope in hope. And in this case of Romans 5:1-5 I believe you do see this hope has nothing to do with a "hope I stay saved".
But more importantly, you introduced this Romans 5:1-5 passage and it speaks relevant to this issue you have concerning OSAS. Paul, through the Holy Spirit, concludes a person is justified by faith, as well as saying this numerously in many other passages. In Romans 11 he also says "you stand ONLY through faith" (RSV) .
Do you agree with what is written here, or do you have another interpretation for this passage? Please give us your answer to this "being justified by faith" Paul speaks of.
Here again is my exposition on this passage for your critiquing....
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... in my list of 10 in this thread, or in my list of 65 in the other thread.
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Romans 8:29-30 says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.
How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling? If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?
What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.
Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?
How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true.
Like Colosians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:2 says that we are sons of God now and that when Christ appears, we will be like Him. There is no qualifier. There is no "...if we don't lose our salvation".
Titus 1:2 says that God has promised us eternal life and that He never breaks a promise.
In John 10:27-29, Jesus promises us that He has given us eternal life, that we will never perish, and that we are not only in His hands, but in the Father's hands. How is Jesus' promise in John 10:27-28 consistent with the idea that we can lose our salvation? Is Jesus really incompetent to keep those whom the Father has given Him?
John 5:24 says that if we are saved, we will not come into condemnation but will have eternal life? How can Jesus promise that we will not come into condemnation if He knows we can lose our salvation?
Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation is not by works. If we cannot be saved by works, then how can we lose our salvation by works?
John 14:16-17 tells us that when we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us forever. How can the Holy Spirit indwell in us forever if we lose our salvation? Since when does the Holy Spirit dwell in the unsaved?
Ephesians 1:13, 4:30 tells us that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If we lose our salvation, then how can we still claim to be sealed?
1 Peter 1:4 says that our salvation is "imperishable, undefiled, and unfading". If our salvation is imperishable, how can we lose it? If our salvation is promised by God to be undefiled, how can we defile it?
If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us.
Incidentally, it only takes one sin to fall away, right? I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.
For example, they couldn't murder. We couldn't even be angry. They couldn't commit adultery. We couldn't even have a lustful thought. If the OP is right, then we lose our salvation by doing less in following the law than the Israelites did!
Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ? Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?
The OP exults in his supposed "victory" over OSAS, but I can't help but wonder if he's ever considered what eternal insecurity actually means in everyday life or the consequences it has on the Gospel. -
How many thousands of time have I posted this? ...
1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Do any Baptist churches teach this?
Let's figure out what our new covenant is all about ...
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant
… not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers (Israel & Judah)
… I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God,
and they shall be My people … for they shall all know Me” (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you ...
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My
judgments and do them … you shall be My people, and I will be your God.” (Ezekiel 36:27-28).
Because we have the Holy Spirit, it is now possible for God to lead us through sanctification unto holiness!
So, I'm not concerned about eternal insecurity ... I'm concerned about what the Scripture teaches.
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JohnDeereFan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Actually, I wasn't talking about "fearing to sin". I was asking a rhetorical question about the consequences of our sin in order to illustrate the absurdity of the denial of the Biblical doctrine of eternal security.
If you can't even get my posts right, how on Earth can we trust you to rightly divide the Word of God? -
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