20 QUESTIONS FOR THOSE WHO OBJECT TO MILLENNIAL EXCLUSION
1. In 1 Corinthians 9:27 Paul labors to keep from being a "castaway." In Luke 9, Jesus addresses His disciples (including Peter, vv.20, 23), and John and James (v.27-28), and He also warns them about the possibility of being "cast away" (v.25). Why don't you use Luke 9:25 to understand what Paul means in 1 Corinthians 9:27?
2. Did the warning in Luke 9:25 still apply to Peter, James and John when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians 9:27?
3. If it did not, at what point did the warning that Jesus gave to Peter, James and John in Luke 9:25 cease to apply to them?
4. Why do you think some versions destroy the link between Luke 9:25 and 1 Corinthians 9:27 (by erasing the words castaway, cast away)?
5. In Mark 9:38, John is speaking. When the Lord answers him, who does the "thy" (second person singular) refer to in Mark 9:43?
6. Does the phrase "ye belong to Christ" in Mark 9:41 mean that John was eternally saved?
7. In verse 50, who is Jesus addressing?
8. When are unbelievers bodily resurrected for judgment?
9. Do unbelievers, according to a KJV, go to Hell after their bodily resurrection, or do they go to the Lake of Fire? (see Revelation 20:14-15)
10. Who is Jesus warning about going to "Hell" in BODY, an unbeliever or a believer (Mark 9:47)?
11. According to Jesus, to escape Hell is to enter the Kingdom of God in body (Mark 9:47). When does this Kingdom begin (see Luke 21:31)?
12. When is the Last Day, mentioned by Jesus in reference to unbelievers in John 12:48?
13. When did Jesus promise to raise up everyone who BELIEVES upon Him in John 6:40?
14. Can you believe the Gospel, yet refuse to confess Jesus, and be a faithful believer? (see John 12:42, Matthew 10:30-32, 2 Timothy 2:12)
15. Does Jesus have something more for believers who confess Him, live for Him, and suffer for Him? What is it?
16. What is the "better resurrection" that many were tortured in order to receive in Hebrews 11:35?
17. What is the "resurrection" that Paul suffered for, and for which he allowed himself to be made conformable to Christ's death in order to attain in Philippians 3:10-11?
18. Is the Last Day the same as the Seventh Day in Hebrews 4:4-11?
19. Since Jesus warned His disciples about the danger of going to "Hell" in soul and BODY (see Matthew 10:28), and since unbelievers only go to "Hell" in their SOUL before their resurrection, and since all unbelievers come out of "Hell" to stand at the Great White Throne, and are then cast into the Lake of Fire, was Jesus warning believers or unbelievers about going to "Hell" in their BODIES? Do modern Christians need to fear this warning?
20. A believer can be made sick or killed by God in this life, and still possess everlasting life (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 11:30). Where is the Bible verse that teaches that temporary chastisement in the age of the Millennial Kingdom would neutralize the promise of everlasting life, even though temporary chastisement in this life does not?
20 QUESTIONS FOR THOSE WHO OBJECT TO MILLENNIAL EXCLUSION
Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Lacy Evans, May 31, 2005.
Page 1 of 2
-
-
Hi, Lacy. I'm sure you've already engaged in a discussion with others on the board about this. But would you define your use of the term "millennial exclusion" for the rest of us? Thanks.
-
-
Luk 9:25 (Geneva Bible):
For what auantageth it a man, if he win
the whole worlde, and destroy himselfe, or lose himselfe?
This refers only to the salvation/lost divide.
This has absolutely nothing to do with
the fate of a person who is saved.
I believe that the Awards ceremony in heaven
will begin at the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection of the saints.
Not all saints will be reward with Millinnial
Service on earth. Some saints will be serving
in the Millinnial kingdom.
No saint will ever go to hell. Eternal hell
is well, 'eternal' and 'hell'. There are
no temporary stints in hell. -
Lacy,
In the 2 main passages that you mention in # 1, we are dealing with two different Greek words. Different concepts, different themes. -
1] "castaway" is referring to service, not salvation.
2] yes
3] It still applies today
4] Because it promotes "do what you want" easily believeism.
5] lost people
6] yes
7] disciples
8] after the 1000 year kingdom
9] Lake of Fire
10] Lost people
11] when a person recieves Christ as their savior. (see Lu.17:20,21)
12] Physical kingdom on earth
13] The first resurrection is not one day. It is divided in three parts:
a]Christ
b]church
c]two witnesses, trib. saints
14] Faith in the gospel is what saves you, service is another story.
15]rewards, inheritance
16]suffering in the cause for Christ means a "better resurrection".
17] Paul wanted to emmulate Christ to "know the power of His resurrection"
18] No.
a]salvation rest v.3
b]sabath rest v.4
c]kingdom rest v.9
d]cannan rest v.10
19]only unbelievers go to hell. 2nd death has no power(Rev. 20:6) tied to the mercy seat(Heb.6:19) boldness in the day of judgement(1Jn.4:17).
20] It doesn't -
and be totally ignored If only we could
be the invisible man elsewhere as well.
The error called "Millennial Exclusion" is just
the Protestant version of the Catholic purgatory.
But there is a true Millennial Exclusion that
says some saints will NOT be rewared with
Millennial Service. (Just as some saints will
not be rewarded with being a part of the
Armies of Heaven (see Revelation 19:14) )
Still, we ALL shall appear before the Judgement
Seat of Christ:
2Co 5:10 (KJV1611 Edition):
For we must all appeare before the iudgement seat of Christ, that euery one may receiue the things done in his body, according to that hee hath done, whether it be good or bad. -
How did I miss this thread? Anyway, Millennial Exclusion is not Protestant Purgatory. I am not a protestant, I am a Baptist. If you want to call it Baptist Purgatory, I'll accept that, but then you should at least explain the difference between Baptist Purgatory and Roman Catholic Purgatory. You might start by explaining why Roman Catholic Purgatory is unscriptural.
Millennial Exclusion is the teaching that a believer will appear before the Lord at the judgment seat of Christ and be rewarded for his works, whether they be good or bad. A Christian may suffer loss at the judgment seat according to the Bible, but most modern day preachers will not teach the loss at the judgment seat. If they do, they say you will lose crowns. We believe dissobedient Christians will not reign with Christ during the kingdom, but will be cast into outer darkness like the Lord said would happen to wicked and slothful servants. -
Ed, can you prove that he only misses out on some of the goodies? What about Mark 9? Also when do unbelievers go to Hell bodily? I realize they go there when they die but not in a body that could be destroyed (ala Matt 10:28). I don't see any way possible that Matt 10:28 could ever apply to anyone but a believer. They are the only ones who have a body after death but prior to the destruction of Hell in the Lake of fire in rev 20.
Lacy -
Lacy, I think you missed my question. I'm not interested in debating the issue, and don't intend this as a trick question. This is a term with which I am unfamiliar, and would like to see it defined by the person using it. Thanks.
-
I sincerely apologize for taking this long to answer your question.
Millenial Exclusion is the doctrine (taught historically by Govett, G H lang, G H Pember, S S Craig, Watchman Nee, etc., and more recently by Zane Hodges, Charles Stanley, JD Faust, Earl Radmacher, etc. ) which says that the warning verses, which are generally used to teach that a Christian can lose his salvation, in fact teach that a Christian can miss the 1000 year Kingdom of Christ.
We believe in absolute 100% eternal security of the believer, yet we believe that there are real (and serious) negative (temporary) rewards that can be earned by a slothful, disobedient Christian walk, including banishment from the Millennial Kingdom.
These rewards (chastisements) are meted out both in this life and possibly at the Judgnment Seat Of Christ.
Here are a couple of links to short books on the subject.
http://www.inthebeginning.org/schoettle/booksonline/panton/judgmentseat.htm
http://www.inthebeginning.org/kingdom/roadhouse/believers.pdf
Please feel free to ask me questions. I am sorry for my tardy response.
Lacy -
Ed, can you prove that he only misses out on some of the goodies? What about Mark 9? Also when do unbelievers go to Hell bodily? I realize they go there when they die but not in a body that could be destroyed (ala Matt 10:28). I don't see any way possible that Matt 10:28 could ever apply to anyone but a believer. They are the only ones who have a body after death but prior to the destruction of Hell in the Lake of fire in rev 20.
Lacy </font>[/QUOTE]Where'd you dissappear to . . .man?
:D :D :D
Lacy -
-
LadyEagle, I think she means that they'll only be in outer darkness for 1,000 years.
Of course, since I'm amill, I obviously do not believe in this.
Then again, the part about losing joys and receiving punishment here in this time, for a regenerate but "backslidden" Christian, sounds awfully close to Primitive Baptist doctrine.
You're half way there Lacy. :D
Seriously though, this is the first I have ever heard of this millennial exclusion doctrine as well, so don't feel bad Bro. Robert. ;) -
Lacy: "Where'd you dissappear to . . .man?"
I read Mark 9.
I couldn't figure out which verse(s) you meant.
I figured you didn't know either ;)
Lacy: "I'll post my (to this point unanswered) question again. What "reward" will a believer recieve at the JSOC (according to 2Cor 5:10) for the "bad" works done in the body?"
The bad works are sins, the sins have been forgotten by God.
There will be no 'reward' (punishment) for forgotten sins.
If God punishes sins that are forgiven, then God isn't God --
Hense, God will never punish forgiven sins for God cannot fail to
be God.
-
* Can/does God chasten us for sins already forgiven?
* Why have this:
Your friend and brother, Lacy -
I absolutely believe in 100% eternal security. However I believe that God chastens in this life for disobedience. That has nothing to do with salvation. So what I proposed to myself is this: What if temporary Chastening is not just possible in this life but also in the next at the JSOC? The more I studied, the more I found it to be so.
In the Corinthian church, God made some eternally Secure, Once-saved-always-saved, believers sick and he even killed some because they didn't keep a proper attitude concerning the Lord's Table. Were their sins forgiven in an absolute sense? Of course, but in a famial practical sense, they were disobedient and carnal and subject to (very severe) fatherly discipline.
Now when you get over to 1 Cor 6:8-10, Gal 5: 19-21, and Eph 5:3-7, we have very clear warnings to eternally Secure, Once-saved-always-saved, believers that if they do certain things they will not inherit the Kingdom. Look up the verses. It's as plain as day.
Are they still saved? Absolutely! The Chastening at the JSOC in no way compromises the doctrine of eternal secutity.
lacy -
Well to tell the truth I don't know a single Christian who has been excluded from the millennial reign! :D
-
Lacy Evans: "* Why are they not rewarded if all their "bad works"
are forgiven. How could a forgiven sin cause them
to lose out on some goodies?//
This is an illogical question, which is hard to answer logically.
The time spent sinning cannot be spent doing good works which will
be rewarded. The forgiven sin will NOT cause loss, it will cause
the not receiving of rewards. There are tears in Heaven you know, else
how can every tear be dryed?
There are no whipping posts in heaven. -
Why does it then say they will be rewarded for their works *whether* they be good *or* bad? They must be rewarded for bad works.
Page 1 of 2