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21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by rlvaughn, May 29, 2017.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I believe the NKJV is capable of improvement, so I'm hoping for a revision at some point. I would also like to see a printed Bible in the Majority Text. I think there would be a good market for such a Bible. As you say, The 21st Century Bible falls between two stools.
     
    #41 Martin Marprelate, Jun 3, 2017
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Kind of off topic, but Genesis 36:24 in The Living Torah at ORT.org has an interesting addition in brackets:
     
    #42 rlvaughn, Jun 3, 2017
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Here are some comparisons from the Gospel of John

    John 2:3a
    And when the wine failed (Tyndale's, 1535 Coverdale's, 1537 Matthew's, 1539 Great, 1560 Geneva, 1994 KJ21)
    and when they wanted wine (1568 Bishops' Bible, KJV)
    and when they lacked wine (1967 New Scofield, 1998 TMB)
    When the wine was gone (1971 KJII)
    and being short of wine (Green's Literal Translation)
    And when they ran out of wine (NKJV)

    John 3:8a
    The wind bloweth where it listeth (KJV)
    The wind bloweth where it willeth (1967 New Scofield)
    The wind bloweth where it will (KJ21, TMB)
    The wind blows where it wishes (NKJV)
    The Spirit breathes where He desires (1971 KJII, Green's Literal Translation, MKJV)

    John 5:35a
    He was a burning and shining light (KJV, MKJV, KJ21, TMB)
    He was the burning and shining lamp (NKJV)
    He was a burning and shining lamp (1971 KJII)
    That one was the burning and shining lamp (Green's Literal Translation)

    John 8:58b
    Before Abraham was, I am (KJV, KJ21)
    before Abraham began to be, I AM (1971 KJII)
    before Abraham was, I AM (NKJV)
    Before Abraham came into being, I AM (MKJV, Green's Literal Translation)

    John 12:24
    Except a corn of wheat (KJV)
    except a grain of wheat (KJ21)
    unless a grain of wheat (NKJV, MKJV)

    John 14:2a
    In my Father's house are many dwelling places (1560 Geneva, Green's Literal Translation)
    In my Father's house are many mansions (KJV, NKJV, MKJV, KJ21, TMB)
    In my Father's house are many places to live (1971 KJII)

    John 18:6
    I am he (KJV)
    I am He (1971 KJII, NKJV, KJ21, TMB)
    I AM (Green's Literal Translation, MKJV)
     
    #43 Logos1560, Jun 3, 2017
  4. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I'm gonna check my print editon when I get home. The version on Bible Gateway.com has "water" with the footnote: "Following Masoretic Text and Vulgate (hot springs); Septuagint reads Jamin; Targum reads mighty men; Talmud interprets as mules." [But, curiously, The Living Torah claims "there is no support for this (water, springs) in Judaic sources."]
     
    #44 rlvaughn, Jun 3, 2017
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Other than the Greek orthodox bible, any publish a Bzt texted version?
     
    #45 Yeshua1, Jun 3, 2017
  6. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    The English Majority Text Version (NT only) is available in paperback. The World English Bible is available from Amazon.
     
    #46 rsr, Jun 3, 2017
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Same version as the internet one?
     
    #47 Yeshua1, Jun 3, 2017
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I suppose so. I couldn't say whether changes have been made in the online versions that don't show up in the printed ones.
     
    #48 rsr, Jun 3, 2017
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, the KJV has "water" as a translation of הימם. The word means "(spring) water." It is incorrectly translated as "mules" in the KJV.

    The word "donkeys" is a correct translation of החמרים used later in the verse.
     
    #49 TCassidy, Jun 3, 2017
  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    This is one of Green's peculiarities; he insisted that every English version (with one exception) had mistranslated the verse for centuries. He produced support for his view, but it seems a little thin to me. But what do I know? (Please, that's a rhetorical question; no response is required.)
     
    #50 rsr, Jun 3, 2017
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Genesis 36:24New King James Version (NKJV)
    24 These were the sons of Zibeon: both Ajah and Anah. This was the Anah who found the watera]">[a] in the wilderness as he pastured the donkeys of his father Zibeon.

    Footnotes:
    1. Genesis 36:24 Following Masoretic Text and Vulgate (hot springs); Septuagint reads Jamin; Targum reads mighty men; Talmud interprets as mules.
    Waters rather than springs does not seem too far afield, and it avoids the bogus "invented mules."

    The World English Bible (WEB) has: "These are the children of Zibeon: Aiah and Anah. This is Anah who found the hot springs in the wilderness, as he fed the donkeys of Zibeon his father.
     
    #51 Van, Jun 3, 2017
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    OK. Got that. Sorry for confusing the issue. :oops:
     
    #52 Martin Marprelate, Jun 3, 2017
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  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    As both "wind" and "spirit" are the same word in both Hebrew and Greek, some believe he may have a point. But as with all such words, context is the key.

    It seems to me to be more than just a bit silly to insist on a single translation of the Greek into English.

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and wind, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom.
    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Wind is wind.
    7 Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
    8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Wind.”

    It would be interesting to ask John of Japan how the Japanese bible translates this passage in light of the "divine wind" of Japanese mythology. :)
     
    #53 TCassidy, Jun 3, 2017
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  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Exactly. A point lost on one of our frequent posters. The same Greek or Hebrew word can reasonably be translated, and should translated, differently in different contexts.
     
    #54 rsr, Jun 3, 2017
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  15. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Yes. Would Holy Spirit be translated as "tsunami" in Japanese? JoJ should weigh in, but I seriously doubt it because it would drag up connotations of Shinto. But I could be wrong. If JoJ were a Jesuit he could probably argue for some sort of replacement theology ...
     
    #55 rsr, Jun 3, 2017
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  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. I thought you meant you were seeing "donkeys" in your copy where it has "mules" in others. Sorry for multiplying the confusion!
     
    #56 rlvaughn, Jun 3, 2017
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Using the best English word or phrase to convey the Greek word/phrase meaning, contextually considered, is not silly.
     
    #57 Van, Jun 4, 2017
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for an interesting laugh! Tsunami (津波) simply means "tidal wave," which comes after an earthquake and has nothing to do with wind. We do have a lot of typhoons (台風, taifuu, "platform wind"). There are separate words in Japanese for wind (風, kaze) and spirit (霊, rei). The "Holy Spirit" has His own word, 聖霊 (Seirei, "Holy Spirit"). And none of these words have Shinto connotations.
     
    #58 John of Japan, Jun 5, 2017
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The original "Divine Wind" (神風, kamikaze), meaning "god-wind") came in the 13th century when a typhoon dispersed a Mongolian invasion fleet as it approached Japanese shores. This word in particular doesn't occur in any form of Christianity, but the first Chinese character has quite a history of controversy in Chinese Bible translation, which did influence Japanese translations (which all use 神 (kami) for God.

    The controversy in China was whether to use 神 (shen in Chinese), the word for local deities, or Shang Ti (上帝, "upper emperor"), which was the word for the monotheistic God of ancient Chinese religion. Morrison and Marshman both ended up using Shen, but the Catholics used a 3rd word, Tien (天, "Heaven," used by Confucius). To this day you can buy two editions of the Chinese Union Version of 1919, the Shen and the Shang Ti.
     
    #59 John of Japan, Jun 5, 2017
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  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    So there Jay Green sat with his first year Greek knowledge, typesetting his interlinear NT, which he did himself rather than hiring someone (all for the glory!). On one side he had the NKJV, and on the other side the NASV, choosing whichever rendering he wanted for the interlinear. This created a mess: words not in the TR, etc. If he didn't see what he wanted, he would simply substitute a synonym.
     
    #60 John of Japan, Jun 5, 2017
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