Still waiting for someone to make the case that what we saw in the video is an acceptable form of worship.
A video of my girls dancing in church...
Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by annsni, Dec 25, 2008.
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Instead of taking your premises to the Scriptures, allow the Scriptures to form your premises. -
First and foremost, no one has questioned the salvation of those girls that danced, their parents, or for that matter anyone else that I know of. So why bring salvation into the discussion? This is what you have done--immediately, as soon as you mention the word legalism.
As the Judaizers tried to make circumcision and the law requirements for salvation, so legalists try and add on to the requirements of salvation. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
For example, the COC states that salvation is by faith plus baptism (baptismal regeneration). They have become legalistic. They are adding to the requirements of salvation. That is legalism. Adding to salvation; requiring more than what is necessary to be saved.
No one has even suggested that on this thread. If you don't know the meaning of the word, don't use it. -
Personally I would find it hard to see how that kind of thing would edify the body. -
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What else does the Bible say about God, he is worthy of ALL praise and wants it in spirit and in truth and not according to DHK. Millions of Christians have worshiped in faith for centuries and God has been there all the time.
I will caution that you seem to approach works based salvation when you feel worthy of God grace because of things you do or don't do (no instruments). God's presence is not in worship because you don't have instruments or dance, he is there because believers hearts are gathered together in spirit and in truth...
Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. -
As for instruments, if God allows instruments in heaven, why would he not allow them on earth?
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. -
I apologize if I misunderstood your view as being salvation is only to those who worship as you do. It sounded like you were saying your worship as you do to be saved which is the same is being under the law (I obey the law to be saved instead of I obey the law because I am saved). -
DHK...
Or the riots that sometimes occured when Paul preached?
Or the commotions and anger and "gnashing of teeth" that occured sometimes when Christ preached?
Or when David danced "with all his might"?
God was not involved in all of those events?
Or did God AUTHOR those events?
:godisgood: -
This is a serious accusation.
We are discussing "girls dancing in church." See OP.
When you question someone's salvation you have broken the rules of BB.
I have just stated in a previous post that no one's salvation was ever in question.
Your statement concerning me believing in a works-based salvation is false, out-of-line, and should be reported to other moderators. Questioning one's salvation is not permitted.
That is a warning.
Next time it goes to the administration.
I don't put up with that nonsense. -
God also authored the rain of fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah.
God also authored the slaughter of the Canaanites.
God also orchestrated the events that would lead to the hanging of Absalom by his own hair caught in a thicket or a tree.
Thus, according to you, because events are authored or orchestrated by God, we can do the same things in our own services in our own churches. Is this your brand of theology?
Do you know what the Pastoral Epistles are? Do you know what their purpose is? -
DHK,
1) You are either missing my point, or dodging it.
This is not complicated. You clearly indicated that God would not approve of dancing as worship because God is not the author of "chaos", but rather order.
I then showed you 4 of the many examples of where God authored chaos and/or confusion.
2) Yes, I know what the pastoral epistles are.
3) Yes, I know what their purpose is.
:godisgood: -
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
--The application is to "all the churches of the saints." All of them, including yours.
1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
--Same chapter; same application.
You are trying to tell me that God is a God of confusion when the Bible declares He is not. Keep in context the local church. -
DHK...
Now....exactly where is the "confusion" that took place as Annsni's girls did their dancing during the worship service?
(maybe you could give us the time...such as "from the 2:56 mark to the 5:18 mark.)
Please explain to us all what was so dangerous and "confusing" in what those girls did?
1) Indecent.
3) Out of order
Looking forward to you explanations.
:godisgood: -
What is the purpose of the local church?
What is the purpose of music in the local church.
Music in the Bible is never used for entertainment, never.
The only place it is used for entertainment is in ungodly situations such as the Israelites dancing naked around the golden calf. Is that your precedent?
What was the purpose of the local church?
Acts 2:41-42 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Note the pattern:
1. First they were saved and then baptized.
2. Then they continued in the apostles teaching (doctrine). That is put first for it was the most important.
3. Next was fellowship--another purpose of the local church.
4. Then in the second ordinance (first baptism), the Lord's Supper.
5. Then they continued in prayer.
The early church continued with this pattern, and these were the most important things as they grew. In Acts 8, when they were persecuted they went everywhere preaching the gospel. In Acts 6, "deacons" were appointed so that the apostles could give themselves "to the word and to prayer."
Notice how relatively unimportant music is in the early church. It was there, but not prominent. What is totally absent is instruments. It is difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to make a case for the use of instruments in the early church. Historically, the church did not accept instruments in the churches until after the Reformation. Neither Spurgeon nor Wesley accepted them.
They would not accept any thing that even resembled entertainment. Dancing would have been entirely out of the question. You cannot demonstrate that this is proper in the churches on two fronts:
1. Historically.
2. Biblically.
But you can try. -
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A works based salvation is no salvation at all; so yes it is an attack on my salvation. How could it not be? However, I had already stated that there is nothing in this thread that has anything to do with salvation. Singing, dancing, etc. has nothing to do with salvation. Why are you trying to connect it to salvation? See the OP. It is about "girls dancing in church," not salvation. -
double post
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So let me ask the question literally---was David's dance an abomination to God? Was his near nakedness in dance an abomination to God? Was God pleased with David and his dance, even though Michael stumbled at it?
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