1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Adam soul?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by loDebar, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The soul often shows God consciousness, such as Psalms 42:1 and Matthew 22:37. The truth is both words (soul and spirit) are used interchangeably in scripture. Two part (physical and spiritual) is the best understanding IMO.
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist

    The spirit is the spiritual part of man.

    The soul is the person themselves, which can refer to both the spirit and body, or to the spirit alone, but never to the body alone when one dies, because the person is not there anymore.


    1 Corinthians 6:20
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


    1 Corinthians 7:34
    King James Version (KJV)

    34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.



    James 2:26
    King James Version (KJV)

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



    God bless.
     
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you read the post about "perfection?"


    God bless.
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As it should be:

    Hebrews 10:10-14
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



    Show where that is asserted.

    See the text above...that is pretty obvious.

    But I would like to see where it is you think that it was asserted that everyone was included in this.


    Nothing in the text about circumcision.

    Please don't impose into the passage that which is not there.


    And we are told why:

    Hebrews 10:14-17
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.



    It is the promise of God in the Old Testament.

    However, you are teaching license to sin.

    You still have to repent and forego sin after salvation, lest God exact the penalty of sin and you die physically.


    License to sin.

    No wonder you go on so much about "being made righteous" and view it as practical righteousness.

    That is pretty scary stuff.


    God bless.
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am curious as to your intent with this verse, seeing you follow a trichotomy of man. This verse actually shows that Adam was made a soul, rather than receiving one.


    The "soul" is the person, and this is properly used to speak of persons who are alive or dead. But you would not call a dead body a soul, because the person is no longer there.


    No, they are spirits in Heaven, just as the dead Old Testament Saints were "spirits made perfect (complete in regards to remission of sins):


    Hebrews 12:22-23
    King James Version (KJV)

    22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,



    No-one who has died will receive there glorified body until the Rapture.


    God bless.
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's the problem with quickly scanning.

    We get the same results when we do that in our Bible Study.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,721
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well we are born of the Spirit not the soul.

    Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

    I will admit that I have rejoiced in both soul and spirit simultaneously - some times when I hear old classic hymns e.g. Living For Jesus. a Life That Is True

    About 50 years ago at a "Revival" this song was sung at the invitation of believer sanctification, I responded positively.

    My life was definitely changed and my wife and I went off to bible college.

    Even today this song brings forth a medley of emotion. Some sorrow of soul because I have failed Him (sometimes miserably) so often.
    Some rejoicing in my spirit because as He promised "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee".
     
  8. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So what about...

    ...?

    In the above passage the man is not talking to a separate immaterial aspect of his make-up, he is simply talking to his...self. His person. His "being," as your translation gives it.


    This is the best proof text for the trichotomy position (and I know of one more in the Old Testament which no-one ever brings up, lol), but it still has to overlook the numerous passages that show the intent of the word.

    A few examples would be...


    Acts 27:37
    King James Version (KJV)

    37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.


    Genesis 12:5
    King James Version (KJV)

    5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.


    Acts 7:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.




    I would just make one point: natural men have spirits, and do not commune with God. To make the spirit the means by which we communicate with God would suggest natural men do also.

    God created man from the elements of the ground (body) and breathed into him the breath of life (spirit), and man became a living soul.


    God bless.
     
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,721
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You made good sense.
    Its a matter of opinion. In eternity it won't matter.
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And that's the thing, it isn't a "matter of opinion," only one view is right, and it is up to us to make sure we have embraced the right view.

    We can't take an attitude that "Well, its okay if I'm right, and its okay if I'm not."

    And I view this as the leading cause for doctrines such as Soul Sleep and annihilation (and a number of other strange interpretations of passages), because they make "soul" an immaterial aspect of man, then interpret certain passages as having a spiritual and eternal context.

    For example:

    Ezekiel 18
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.



    Most people intepret this passage wrong. I have never once heard the first preacher...not impose an eternal context to this. But if we read the Chapter and maintain the context, we see it has a temporal and physical context, and the death in view is not eternal judgment, but physical death. We would have to also conclude that the passage teaches that one can gain eternal life through the keeping of the Law.

    One more example, and this is chosen randomly:


    Proverbs 19:15
    King James Version (KJV)

    15 Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.



    Would we not see the physical context here? Or does the author refer to what takes place after death? Now we do see the Rich Man thirst in torment, so it could be argued men can hunger in the afterlife, but I will ask you what you would think is in view.


    God bless.
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,721
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well in that case you better change your mind.
     
  12. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Naw, being unbiblical just isn't a goal of mine.

    ;)

    If you want to view "soul" as an immaterial aspect of man rather than how it is used in 99.99 percent of the Bible, okay, I understand. It sure does make a number of doctrines easier to "prove."


    God bless.
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,721
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I have already admitted that soul and spirit can intermingle, they are however distinct (but not separate) entities.

    Bye for now I have animals to tend.
     
  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,189
    Likes Received:
    500
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does one who is obstinate ever change?

    This is exactly in agreement with what I posted earlier in the thread.

    There is such a mingling, and attempts to specify soul, spirit, mind, intellect, body, ... can often become, at times, an exercise with nothing gained but confusion and futility to banter about how or the specificity of the separation.

    Especially when the Scriptures state that ONLY the Word has such ability as to break apart the soul and spirit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But Hank, lol, that is like saying "Trump and the President inter mingle." Its speaking about the person.

    You can't tell me you don't see that in the passages presented.


    Pet one for me!


    God bless.
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,721
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Darrell bro, you have a lot to learn...

    Spock (one of my dogs) thanks you for the kindness.:)
     
  17. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Don't confuse confidence with obstinacy.


    Sorry to hear that.


    We can identify what "Soul, spirit, mind, and body" all mean, and place them in a proper context.

    See if you can do this:

    Soul:


    Acts 7:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.



    Spirit:


    Matthew 4:1

    King James Version (KJV)

    4 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


    Matthew 14:26
    King James Version (KJV)

    26 And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.



    Luke 24:39
    King James Version (KJV)

    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.




    2 Timothy 1:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.





    Mind:


    Romans 1:28
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


    2 Timothy 1:7
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.




    1 Corinthians 2:16
    King James Version (KJV)

    16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.



    Body:

    James 2:26
    King James Version (KJV)

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



    Could I say, for example, that the "body" in view here is the Body of Christ?

    Likewise, with all of these, we can identify what is in view. And when we impose the popular notion of the "soul" being an immaterial aspect of man we are certain to misinterpret passages.


    Actually, Scripture doesn't say that ONLY the Word of God has the ability to "break apart the soul and spirit."

    What it does say is this:


    Hebrews 4:12
    King James Version (KJV)

    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



    Does it mean that God is separating two immaterial aspects of man? The word of God is dividing joints and marrow? That doesn't make a lot of sense when SOul is viewed as an immaterial aspect of man.

    So instead...

    12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,


    In view is a consistent Biblical theme, the penalty for sin. He is saying that the Word of God can separate the soul and spirit in a context of death. That is what the Word is seen to do:


    2 Corinthians 3:6
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


    Romans 7:10
    King James Version (KJV)

    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.



    How about the joints and marrow?


    ...and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



    Does the Word of God separate body parts? No. So a more reasonable explanation of what his intent is would be a reference to the body and that which is within.

    But, that doesn't fit with the popular notion most hold to.


    God bless.
     
  18. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So...teach me.

    ;)


    See Spock run...

    ...to his bowl.

    Okay, now give him a goodie for me, lol. My wife just pulled in the driveway and my yellow lab is whining like crazy in his excitement.


    God bless.
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,721
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes its totally amazing,our dogs are ALWAYS happy to see and greet us. Oh that we humans could learn that from them :Roflmao
     
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,189
    Likes Received:
    500
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I’m really rather unimpressed with this thread. Not certain the topic is even necessary considering where it has seemed to wander

    From the posts on this thread it seems some determination on thinking of categorizing and separating even in areas that are not necessary.

    Water is wet, wet has no elements such as water, yet the two are inseparable except by the authority of the creator.

    We may acknowledge, we may inspect, and we might even speculate. We have no power or authority to separate.
     
Loading...