An Answer To Alcoholic Beverages

It doesn't matter how man looks at me. I answer Christ. A sinless Christ. One who commands abstinence in His people.

 

You realize that you have essentially questioned/doubted the salvation of a handful of us on this thread, and probably across the bb, right?

Just double checking. Again, clarify if I"m misunderstanding....then again I don't really expect an answer from you....although it would be refreshing.

 

I already said the Word of God is your judge, I do not judge you.

 

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God. (1 John 3:20-21)

 

dan e.,

are you deliberately trying to get His Blood to say you are not saved?

I think he answered your question.

He answered wisely according to what the Lord showed him to be truth.

 

I'm going to assume that all who wanted to answer this have done so.

Like Paul Harvey would say, "Now, the rest of the story!"

Had one noticed, they would have seen that I entered that bar only a couple of minutes before. They would also notice that the individual(s) I left with, or who followed me out of the bar got into the taxicab sitting nearby. Thjey would have noticed that I got behind the wheel of that taxicab, as the driver, who was there to pick up a fare. Had they looked into that cab, they would have noticed a Bible in the front seat, or on the console, depending on how many were riding. They might have even noticed a picture on the dash of "yours truly", with a lovely young woman, who at the time the picture was taken (at my late brother's wedding) was my girlfriend, who a month or so after that, became my fiance, and then my wife.

I guess that (my exiting the bar) is "the appearance of evil" to some who quickly decide what they wanted to see, but it is part of the job of a cabdriver. They did not see all that they thought they saw. I believe that would be called "judging". (Matt. 7:1; Lk. 6:37) But it would not be "righteous judgment".

Ed

 

Reading through these posts, it appears you are trying to trap His Blood into breaking BB rules.

That is wrong on your account.

 

and people riding down the street who did not see you going to the cab could have seen you walking out of the bar... thereby ruining your chance of witnessing to that person.

 

I guess that if I saw someone coming out of a convenience store where they sell lottery tickets, I should assume that that was what they were there to buy, NO? How about out of Walmart where they sell beer in "wet" counties? Should I assume that that is why someone went to that store? Where does this kind of Pharasaism (sp.?) stop? :tonofbricks:

Ed

 

HBSMN, this is a valid question. It's delivered with no venom, and it begs for an answer. Is a deacon disqualified for drinking too much grape juice? I look forward to seeing your answer to this one.

So His eating with sinners, publicans, tax collectors...they all were "tee-totalers" when Christ came to their house? I think not.

Did Jesus get drunk? No way. Even if I concede to your point that He never drank wine--you've taken it a step farther. This has no Scriptural support. This has no logical support. Of course Jesus was around people who drank. But in Him, there was no sin.

I'm not even arguing the point that it's wise for us to hang out with drinkers...for me, I know it's not. And I'm a tee-totaller. ('cept for last month's sinus infection...I had Nyquil. But I'm only going to purgatory for that :laugh: ).

But I'm not going to try to contrive a point from Scripture, no matter how innocent it might seem, just to back up a position I hold.

 

Jesus would not have violated the OT commands. As our High Priest, He was not allowed to partake of wine according to Scripture.

He also would have violated OT Scripture if He hung around parties where people were drinking alcohol. He is our example. He knew the command to 'be not among winebibbers and riotous eaters of flesh'. ]

Regardless of anyone saying He companied with parties where peole were drinking, the Word declares He would not.

 

Nothing Pharisaical about it Ed. Does the Bible say to abstain from 'all' appearance of evil? or just 'some'?

 

You didn't grasp the meaning of the parable about the good Samaritan, I see.

 

Please stop misquoting that verse. It doesn't mean to avoid appearing evil. Do your homework.

NKJV
22 Abstain from every form of evil.

NIV
22 Avoid every kind of evil.

NASB
22 abstain from every form of evil.

Holman
22 Stay away from every form of evil.

Darby
22 hold aloof from every form of wickedness.

It's not about how you appear. It's about what you do.

 

The good Samaritan says nothing about any drinking wine.

Do your homework

The certain Samaritan poured wine and oil into the wounds, not down the man's throat.

 

Sue me...but this is a honkin' long post. But it's doggone good, if I do say so my arrogant-little-cuss-self.

****

"Is it sinful?"

IMO, this is the wrong question.

Before you stone me, let me explain.

Jesus loved to quote the law, and then show us that in our devotion to God, His grace would take us to a place beyond the duty of the Law...to a place where our motives (the inside that God sees) were surrendered to God as an act of worship--and thus our actions (the outside that man sees) were submitted to His will: not out of duty, or from a sense of pride, but out of Love and devotion.

So, I think we should focus less on "is it sinful?" which only addresses this particular point in time. "Is drinking this wine right now a sinful act?" Wrong question.

The right question is: What is the wise thing to do?

Drinking the glass of wine, for me, is a "here and now" question. I don't drink because God has shown me that it isn't wise for me to do so. The upside is small. The potential downside is large. But beyond the utilitarian, there is this idea: Wisdom is looking past the "fork in the road" and seeing the destinations of taking the particular paths in front of you. And in looking down the path, I am to ask, "will this path ultimately lead me toward Godliness, or take me away from it?" For me, there are several potential paths in which drinking could lead me away from Godliness:

• damaging a witness to those I am trying to teach, reach, mentor (the "weaker brother" and "eating meat" argument. I'm willing to give up this if it means reaching them).
• risk of addiction (it's zero if I leave it alone).
• risk of overdoing it and becoming drunk.
• I'm of quite limited finances. There are better uses for my money.
• Being associated with those who are drunk, do act irresponsibly or illegally, etc.
• Being misunderstood by those whom I am charged with ministering to (teens), or leading them astray.
• Damaging my body (if alcohol was abused).

So...the paths down the road have too many pitfalls. It's not wise for me to do so. Others should ask God to give them wisdom in this issue. He will do it! And then, it becomes between them and God.

To me, seeing this in terms of "wisdom" does exactly what Christ does all the time...He takes the law, for example:

• "Don't commit adultery."

And He 'raises the bar' to encourage us to allow God to direct our motives and hearts, not just our bodies; so it becomes,

• "Don't look lustfully on a woman."

So like I said...if my operative question is changed from, "What's wrong with...." to "What is the wise thing to do?" then...

• My behavior is not about externally being moral...it's about internally being holy.
• Arguments tend to dry up a bit...because we seek God's direction more (informed through His word), rather than just making it about rules (please note...His Word is how we know His direction; I'm not suggesting subjectivism or relativism).
• The balance is easier to find...the one we all struggle with...the balance between Legalism and Libertine behavior.

I know that because of HBSMN's interpretation of "wine" and it's meaning, it may preclude any common ground (even though I haven't drank in decades and won't be doing so). But I do think that what I've said might spark some searching for common ground among many (maybe most?) of us.

 

No misquoting here. The Word says 'Abstain from all appearance of evil.'

Quoted it word for word.

 

Guess I can't go into Walmart, now, even! Those rotten people sell beer in some locales. Maybe I'll try Target. [sarcasm] :rolleyes:

Ed

 

Like I said, you obviously didn't get the point of the story. And, no, it has nothing to do with wine.

 

God is not a respector of persons. If it is not wise for you, it is not wise for anyone else.