Anyone willing to help found a NEW Christian nation?

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
It does not make it a theocratic government just because it honors God. I makes it a fair government and a just government. What we have now is not either.

If it honors a specific religion's God, then I'd disagree with you. However, if it honors God in general without referring to a specific religion or creed (such as "In God We Trust", or "One Nation Under God") then you've got a point.

Originally posted by AF Guy N Paradise:
In the military, religion is a joke as chaplains and other leaders just try to please all including the Mormons, Muslims, etc.

If Mormons and Muslims are serving in the military, should they not be allowed the services of a Chaplain? This same arguement was used when Catholics were joining the military. I'm not saying one should be required to worship with a Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, Jew, Presbyterian, or whatever you can think if, if you don't want to. But their blood is the same color as yours, and the military should, at least on a minimal level, meet the needs of their faith practices, if they're going to do the same with others.

 

[JGrubbs]

"The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America ... our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal." --President Ronald Reagan

 

[JGrubbs]

A careful look into the past reveals landmarks which were essential in guiding America along the pathway that led us to where we are today. More often than not, at each one of these landmarks, there also appears irrefutable evidence that a sense of divine destiny accompanied the most important events of our history.

Here in part are some of these landmarks:

http://r2rministries.com/history/X0067_America_-_A_Christia.html

 

[Jailminister]

JohnV, there is no other God. There maybe some gods, but this country did not have gods in mind, it was God.

 

[GeneMBridges]

Divine destiny is not a divine covenant. The only nation on this earth that has a covenant with God is Israel. The US is not the new Israel. Israel is and ever shall be Israel.

The Ten Commandments served as the preamble to the suzerain covenant that was both God's moral law and their national constitution. Let's not forget that. It is our moral code, not our national constitution.

The Christian church was at its best when it was under persecution. We've grown too comfortable in our churches and pews. Our churches, and, yes, by that I mean OUR churches, not just the truly liberal and neo-orthodox churches, have grown complacent and doctrinal anemic. We are like Ephesus...sound theologically, mostly sound ethically, but we've grown complacent and left our first love. A Christian nation will not make people more spiritual or more Christian. God does that on His own. God will bless the nations in which His people are present and who are serving Him themselves. His hand restrains evil for the sake of the presence of His people. His people, not the people of those nations, are those called to repent and return to their God.

Are there historical records of nations where Christian societies have thrived? Certainly. The First and Second Great Awakenings both had long lasting effects. Abraham Kuyper in Holland established a political and social movement based on Reformed doctrine that thrived in Holland for many years. In all those cases, the results were a natural result of the working of God in the hearts of men, established upon evangelism and sound doctrinal teaching. The effect on society was an UNINTENDED side effect that only became intentional when people realized what was going on. The bottom line is that we are called to be salt and light in a lost society. Withdrawing from that society abdicates those mandates, and acting as if we are a Christian nation changes souls is to ignore the radical depravity of man.

Christians are now and shall be until the Lord returns for His church the minority in any population. Jesus said that in the last days, it would be very like the days of Noah. I can not help but remember that Noah and his family were the only godly people on earth in those days. So shall it be for us.

 

[Marcia]

I think it's a horrible idea. I agree with DHK, Watchman, and Christ4Kildare. Christians can no more have a Utopian society than anyone else. In fact, it would probably end up being a horrible witness for the world. What kind of message does it send?

Not only that, but as someone said, we are not supposed to withdraw from the world but to stay in it and be salt and light. We are not supposed to protect ourselves, but to be willing to suffer for our faith.

The early church was in a very pagan society with people worshiping false gods, temple prostitutes, and all kinds of stuff going on. They didn't withdraw or hole up somewhere, but were scattered so that God could use them to be light in the darkness and plant churches and spread the gospel. We should see what's happening, while tragic and sinful, as a new challenge to stand for Christ in the midst of darkness.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

I don't think he's talking about a utopia. I think he's talking about an imperfect nation that honors God in its institutions, like the USA did and now does less and less. I'm not for secession myself, but would like to steer the USA back toward its God-fearing roots.

 

[LadyEagle]

The Christian church was at its best when it was under persecution. We've grown too comfortable in our churches and pews.

The day may come when Christians in America are persecuted, too. I can see it as a real possibility in the not too distant future. Doing away with God in the public forum is a step in that direction.

Each born again believer may one day face the ultimate sacrifice of laying down one's life for faith in Jesus Christ.

Yesterday the invitation hymn was "My Jesus I Love Thee."

The words go:

I’ll love Thee in life, I will love Thee in death,
And praise Thee as long as Thou lendest me breath;
And say when the death dew lies cold on my brow,
If ever I loved Thee, my Jesus, ’tis now.


I thought of our brothers and sisters who are being beheaded and tortured in other countries for the Cause of Christ and I choked up knowing that one day it truly could be any of us here in America who may be called upon to utter those words as our heads are sawed off.

One day the atheists and God-haters will have it all in this nation and all over the world. This world is not my home, I'm just passing through. In the meantime, I will fight the good fight as long as God gives me the strength to do so.

 

[Debby in Philly]

Wasn't SC the first to leave the last time?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Ain't no such thing as peaceful secession, ain't no such thing as freedom handed over in a platter. Even Christians had to be freed from Satan's kingdom thru blood, albeit the blood of One Person, Jesus Christ. To think the Federal Government will give up one of its states without a fight is wishful thinking.

Still, if enough publicity could be generated, and it can be shown that there are people willing to go to such solutions, it may just cause enough consternation, and hopefully, positive action, among the so-called 'Christians' in high positions.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Man, the first time they left because they were intolerant towards blacks and wanted to keep them as slaves. Now, they're thinking about leaving so they can remain intolerant to anyone they want to be intolerant to.

I am glad I am not the only one who sees the lunacy here. If they want a Christian nation so bad, let them move up to the north part of Canada. There's a whole lot of land up there. There's too much good stuff happening in South Carolina to be ruined by a bunch of crackpots who think that they are doing God a favor by making a "Christian" nation. I think their efforts would be much more effective if they spent the time that they are taking in getting people to move away from their homes to instead go to their next door neighbors' house, their local women's pregnancy center, their local homeless shelter, and they local orphanages and start spreading the love of Christ there instead.

 

[Marcia]

Scott, a big

to your post!

 

[blackbird]

Johnv---how come you are so "Hipped up" against a Theocracy??

Haven't you ever studied the government of Heaven---when you close your eyes in death---you are going to open them to a Theocratic government! Heaven is governed by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit---a Theocracy---I read of no Democracy style of government in the Bible reserved for Heaven! I read nowhere in Scripture where Heaven's government is "by the people, for the people."

Sorry to dissapoint you!

Blackbird

 

[Tangent]

A Christian society sounds good in theory but would never work in reality. Believers, after all, are afflicted with most of the same failings as non-Christians, and there would likely be constant battles on many theological, political and moral fronts. The disputes that go on here are a mere taste of the struggles that would trouble this hypothetical nation. I would love to live in a place surrounded only by loving, peaceful, godly people, but it just isn't going to happen in this life.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Jailminister:
JohnV, there is no other God. There maybe some gods, but this country did not have gods in mind, it was God.

Then, in that case, I'd have to choose the secular government. If the government is to acknowlege a specific religion's deity, even if it corresponds to my own, then it violates the Baptist Distinctive, not to mention the first amendment. Sorry, but I don't want the feds choosing a religion, or coercing mine.

 

[Jailminister]

To me the point is to wake up Washington. I have talked to congressmen and they say that they hear everyday from the sodomite crowd and the liberals, but the Christians are just quite. If we don't speak up and standup, then then congress will go in the direction that they are getting pressure from.

 

[LadyEagle]

Here's the link to the group:

http://christianexodus.org/

It won't work anyway - the Feds would declare martial law in SC and send in the National Guard to imprison everyone or something. We really don't have the freedom we all think we still have.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by blackbird:
Johnv---how come you are so "Hipped up" against a Theocracy??

Because as soon as the Government takes over the role of defining my religious values, I've lost my religious liberties. Additionally, as a Baptist, I adhere to the Distinctive of Separation of Church and State. A theocratic government would interfere with the distinctive, and I'd be forced to either relinquish my Baptist affiliation, take a stand against the theocratic elements of the government, or move to a country that protects a person's freedom of religion.

Haven't you ever studied the government of Heaven---when you close your eyes in death---you are going to open them to a Theocratic government!

Since I'm currently not in Heaven, that's a complete nonissue.

 

[rsr]

Blackbird said:

Johnv---how come you are so "Hipped up" against a Theocracy??

There's a difference between a true theocracy and one that thinks the commands of mortals are the voice of God.

 

[JeffM]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Here's the link to the group:

http://christianexodus.org/

It won't work anyway - the Feds would declare martial law in SC and send in the National Guard to imprison everyone or something. We really don't have the freedom we all think we still have.

We all know what happened when S. Carolina and friends tried to assert their rights as states in 1860......

The Fedgov would not let go of it's power and property without a fight.

Here in Hawaii, the Hawaiian Kingdom was overthrown in 1892 by force of the US Government. They had Marine warships anchored off shore within cannon distance to the Royal Palace. There they made Queen Liliokulani sign THEIR Constitution instead of the Hawaiian Constitution. They told her that if she didn't sign, they would destroy the palace (with her in it) and send the Marines ashore to kill anyone involved in what looks like a rebellion.

Documents show that it was an illegal overthrow against a sovereign nation, yet the Fedgov refuses to acknowledge any wrong-doing.

There is a growing "sovereignty movement" among the native Hawaiians to get their kingdom back and they petition the government continuously to get their case heard in a court of law.....but are continually ignored.

If these people are really serious, they better be prepared to endure what the Branch Davidians and Randy Weaver went through.