Bible records that the Apostles took it upon themselves to replace Judas, but that Jesus Himself replaced Him via Paul!
Apostles, prophets and manifestations of the Holy Spirit
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Baptist Believer, Jun 19, 2021.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Furthermore, if we make Paul the 12th in place of Judas, we then have to have 13 apostles, since along with Paul, Barnabas is called an apostle in Acts 14:14, "Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul...." -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I think you are just following what you have been taught. Many theologians and commentators have take a shallow approach to the issue of the replacement for Judas. I've seen many such. They generally only list the 12, willy nilly including Paul and ignoring others called apostle in the NT (as Baptist Believer has already listed):
1. Barnabas (Acts 14:13-14)
2. James the Lord’s brother (1 Cor. 15:7, Gal. 1:19)
3. Possibly Andronicus and Junias (Rom. 16:7)
4. Apollos (1 Cor. 4:6, 9)
5. Silvanus and Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6)
6. Silas
7. Epaphroditus (Phil. 2:25, messenger, ἀπόστολον)
8. Nameless “messengers” (2 Cor. 8:23, messengers, ἀπόστολοι) -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Matthias
"Has anyone else noticed this similarity between the twelve apostles and the twelve tribes of Israel?:
It could be asked concerning the tribes: Were there 12, 13, or 14 tribes of Israel?
It could be asked concerning the apostles: Were there 12, 13, or 14 apostles?
The question concerning the tribes revolves around Joseph and his two sons (the half-tribes) Manasseh and Ephraim. Which one of these is counted in the twelve?
The question concerning the apostles revolves around Judas, Matthias, and Paul. Which one of these is counted in the twelve?
Dan is called a serpent and an adder in his father's prophecy:
Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Gen 49:17
Christ refers to Judas as a devil:
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. Jn 6:70,71
Dan is not included in the tally of the tribes given in Rev 7 . Manasseh is included in the count as is Joseph. Ephraim is almost of a certain counted as one with Joseph.
MHO, Paul is the twelfth apostle."
"...hard for me to imagine that Paul's name is not on one of those foundations of the New Covenant." Revelation 21:14 -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Again, are you then saying that the other NT apostles who were not of the 12 were not commissioned by Jesus? For example, that Barnabas was a has-been, a johnny-come-lately who didn't deserve to be called "apostle"? But the Bible calls him one in the very same verse where Paul is called one, making Barnabas every bit equal to Paul. Again, here it is: "Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul..." (Acts14:14). -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The false assumption you are making is that Jesus Himself had some different qualification for a disciple being part of the 12 than the 12 themselves. But Jesus said nothing like that when He called Paul to be an apostle or at any other time. -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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