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Featured Are all of God's Ten Commandments still valid?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Dec 24, 2014.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Ok then.... "details".

    1. do you consider it Compelling to ignore the OP subject/point when debating on a thread???

    2. Do you wish to identify yourself as being at war against all 7 points listed in the OP and so fully opposed to what the many pro-sunday scholars in the groups identified so far - affirm regarding those first 6 points?

    3. Do you believe that you can make a case showing that the groups listed do not hold to all 7 points listed in the OP??

    Because the points in the OP on any given thread must be addressed/answered/refuted/agreed to ... to be substantive on a thread.

    If your point is that you oppose all 7 points fine - say so.

    If your point is that you admit that these groups do oppose your views on the 7 points but that you would like to argue the case for opposing them fine - you can say that as well.

    The point of the thread was simply to point out that this is not a "just SDAs notice these Bible details" - matter of fact because many other groups affirm the 6 points.

    And of course the OP also lists a number of Bible texts supporting the Ten Commandments affirmed in the Bible both OT and NT to help explain how it is that even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit to these basic Bible facts.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    And so we did not --

    We only accept true prophets - as the Bible instructs.

    That was easy.

    I have a great place for you to debate SDA doctrines on other topics other than the OP if that is your interest. My point in that post was that it is nonsensical to declare Moody to be at war with any of the 6 points in the OP just because SDAs also affirm them.

    Pure nonsense.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The argument as even section 19 of the "BAPTIST confession of Faith" notes is that the TEN Commandments are included in the Moral Law of God applicable to all men in all ages - even the saints.

    And many texts prove this as noted from the OP -- including

    5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment.

    Paul demands (as does James in James 2) that Christians are obedient to the TEN Commandments and gives as an example the 5th commandment as "The FIRST Commandment with a Promise" - a statement that is ONLY TRUE in the context of the TEN commandments.

    As noted - Andy Stanley and others admit to the TEN Commandments till applicable to the saints - maybe he too reads the "Baptist Confession of Faith"??

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. RLBosley

    RLBosley Active Member

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    What Baptist Confession are you referring to? There are many.

    Regardless, my conscience is not bound to any confession of faith. If they say that we are obligated to the Decalogue as law, then they are wrong and I disagree, based on the testimony of scripture.

    You still ignore my argument.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Then we differ.

    That is proven to be false - in Romans 7, Mark 7:6-13, Romans 13, Eph 6:1-2, James 2...

    And in Gal 3 and Romans 3 both which affirm that in both OT and NT the Law of God -- the moral law of God - declares ALL to be sinners and ALL to be in need of salvation.

    What is more -- regarding that SAME law - Paul says in Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith.. God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God"

    And in 1John 3:4 "Sin IS - Transgression of the LAW"

    And so EVEN the majority of pro-sunday scholars "get the point".

    "Baptist Confession of Faith"
    "Westminster Confession of Faith"
    C.H. Spurgeon
    Andy Stanley
    Matthew Henry
    [FONT=&quot]Jamieson, Fausset, Brown

    R.C Sproul
    "D.L. Moody"
    "Dies Domini"
    and many others
    Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.[/FONT]

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hint: Find two called the "BAPTIST Confession of Faith" that are held by as many Baptists. -- and look at section 19.

    Meanwhile --

    [FONT=&quot]Links that remain as of today[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc01.html[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc19.html[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Links that have been removed[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]As revised by Spurgeon 1855[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/bcof.htm#part19[/FONT][/FONT]
     
    #226 BobRyan, Jan 17, 2015
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  7. RLBosley

    RLBosley Active Member

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    Or, how about not being a jerk and just saying? I'm sure simply typing "the 1689 LBC" or "The New Hampshire" would have been must faster and simpler.
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ came out of the grave on the First Day of the Week. That Resurrection was the the single most important event in all of history. I would remind you what the Apostle Paul said about the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    1 Corinthians 15:12-19
    12. Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    13. But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
    14. And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
    15. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
    16. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    17. And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
    18. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
    19. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.


    Note also in the following Scripture that it was the custom of the Saints to gather on the First Day of the week to worship, that day undoubtedly chosen to celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Act 20:7. And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    1 Corinthians 16:2. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


    Now if you choose to take the teachings of Ms. White over the example presented in Scripture of the Saints celebrating the single most important event in history and the basis of the Christian Faith then you are free to do so. But don't get overly pious over the erroneous teachings of Ms. White!

    I realize there are Scripture in the New Testament in which the Apostle Paul preached to the Jews in the synagogue on the sabbath and that Gentiles were sometimes present. However it should not be expected that Jews would meat any other day than the sabbath!
     
  9. RLBosley

    RLBosley Active Member

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    Let me encourage you to read a book titled "Tablets of Stone" by John Reisinger. Though it is really directed to those who hold to Covenant Theology (and Dispensationalism to a lesser extent) it will still help you clear up some of your misapprehensions about the law.

    It's free online. Here's a link: http://solochristo.com/theology/nct/stone/stonec.htm

    I'm going to excuse myself from this conversation now. You are not interested in honest conversation and your intolerable attitude is frustrating me and I'd rather not sin in anger.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I already posted these links here on this thread to Salty when he was confused about what the "BAPTIST confession of faith" is -- I posted the reference "again" for you in my prior post.

    And my challenge to you is the same - find "another one" that has that level of historic acceptance to prove your "there are too many to know which one" you are talking about.

    And look at section 19.
     
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I have repeatedly told you that I don't care about "other sources listed."
    You don't get that do you? They don't matter to me.
    If you want debate it must be based on the Bible not the opinions of others.
    I do not debate anything based on other people. The Bible alone is my authority.
    You show your confusion once again.
    There is no BAPTIST CHURCH! AKA denomination.
    I go to an independent Baptist church, unaffiliated, separated from all other Baptist churches. It is Baptist in name only. It is Baptist because it adheres to Baptist distinctives, those beliefs which make that broad group of churches different from others, not because it is a denomination. In fact Baptists in general are opposed to denominationalism.
    What would I be if I wasn't a Baptist? I would be ashamed. :)

    The denominations of all of Christendom do not matter to me.
    There were a number of denominational churches I could have attended when I went to the mission field, but there were no fundamental Baptist churches.
    We started one instead of attending something that we could not agree with.
    Do you understand yet?
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I think we all know that and agree that that day was Sunday "week day 1". Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" admits to it.

    And Paul reminds us that Christ said that at the Lord's table we "do show the Lord's DEATH until He comes".

    1 Cor 11:25
    “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

    Two facts that are irrefutable.

    He resurrected-- ONCE and He was born -- ONCE and church tradition eventually got around to celebrating easter and Christmas in true man-made-tradition fashion. Not really violating any part of God's moral Law to do so.

    Christ did not die "once every week" nor was we resurrected "once every week".



    Not every week - rather that one day that one week because Paul was about to leave that next morning. In Acts 20 -- it is travel plans for... week day 1.

    The 7th day is repeatedly called "Sabbath" in the NT AFTER the cross but never is week-day-1 called "The LORD's day" in the NT -- it is only called 'week day 1".



    Nothing in 1 Cor 16 about a worship service on "week-day-1".

    Rather "lay by him in store" -- savings at home rather than a group worship service on "week day 1".



    Then you need to read Acts 13 "Again" where :"almost the entire city" shows up on Sabbath - and were in fact told to meet NEXT Sabbath instead of "Tomorrow on week-day-1".

    Paul present the Gospel to BOTH Jews and Gentiles on Sabbath in Acts 13 (and Acts 17 and Acts 18) but in Acts 13 most Jews whine yet gentiles accept so then they are told to "meet the NEXT Sabbath for MORE" -- and then "almost the entire city shows up" not on WEEK-day-1... but on "the NEXT Sabbath"

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #232 BobRyan, Jan 17, 2015
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  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1. I am curious as to how many times we can have that conversation and you pretend like you are having it for the first time.


    1. The point was not that you have to actually "believe Baptists" the point is that those sources are not SDA and yet even THEY admit to the Bible details about God's Ten Commandments such that they know enough not to be at war with God's Ten Commandments.

    The point is that your constant efforts to re-cast this as "just SDAs" is flawed

    The nonsensical "no baptist is my pope" argument that you keep spinning is not even in the discussion because.... wait for it.... "The point was not that you have to actually "believe Baptists" the point is that those sources are not SDA and yet even THEY admit to the Bible details"




    You raise the wild "it is just SDAs that notice those 6 points" that you are so at war with -- and then you object when I PROVE it is "not just SDAs".



    ========================================


    That is false. You constantly try to "pretend" that these other groups do not make that 6 point case in the OP that you are so at war against - and that "only SDAs" make that case.

    Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???



    Fragmented, fractured and splintered - and yet "Baptists exist" -- i think we all knew that by now.

    1. The point was not that you have to actually "believe Baptists" the point is that those sources are not SDA and yet even THEY admit to the Bible details about God's Ten Commandments such that they know enough not to be at war with God's Ten Commandments.

    The point is that your constant efforts to re-cast this as "just SDAs" is flawed

    The nonsensical "no baptist is my pope" argument that you keep spinning is not even in the discussion because.... wait for it.... "The point was not that you have to actually "believe Baptists" the point is that those sources are not SDA and yet even THEY admit to the Bible details"
     
    #233 BobRyan, Jan 17, 2015
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  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Either this is your "new way" of avoiding the texts in the OP -- post ONE!

    Or this is your way of saying "no more fictions from DHK about SDAs being the only ones that accept the bible details in the first 6 points of the OP - that is a given".

    Kind of hard to tell amid all the "harrumph!" posting.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    harrumph... noted.

    We have some Calvinists on the C-v-A board adopting the "take my toys and go home... but with insult and harrumph to you sir" solution as well.

    Nothing new there.

    As for me - I prefer the Bible and "details' in the discussion.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is very simple Bob.
    In all the NT you cannot provide just one verse of Scripture that commands the NT believer to keep the Sabbath, can you?
    Not even one!
    The Sabbath was given to Israel. See Exodus 31.
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Bob Ryan cannot because he believes JUST THE SAME AS DHK, that is why!

    Why did the Israelites accept the OT command <to keep the Sabbath>?

    Because God brought them "IN into the land (He) sware" unto them to bring them and redeem them in : "ON THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD" your Almighty SAVIOUR.

    That is what DHK like Bob Ryan refuse to see or admit, that it all happened as a FIGURE AND TYPE AND PROPHECY OF THE COMING CHRIST OF GOD.

    So that, “when God RAISED Christ from the dead and SET / RESTED / EXALTED Him at his Own Right Hand”, and let Him “RIDE THE HEIGHTS of the earth because He called the Sabbath his delight and honoured it” … THEN, “… there was a great earthquake ON THE SABBATH when the angel of the LORD from heaven descending, CAST THE STONE FROM THE GRAVE” … “and God FINISHED all his works on the day The Seventh Day”—“the SABBATH of the LORD YOUR GOD” --- and brought you, o Christian man, “IN into the Kingdom of his dear Son”!

    DHK rejects this just like Bob Ryan rejects it --- the only legitimate and LEGITIMATIZING work of God for the CHRISTIAN man’s ‘keeping’ of the Sabbath Day.

    You are like two starving wolves in snow-covered wasteland who instead of to hunt together and be succesfull at finding some food for survival, go at one another’s throat for nothing but self-anihilation.
     
    #237 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 18, 2015
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  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    You, Bob Ryan -- or SDA-in-all for that matter -- have not <<present(ed) the Gospel … on the Sabbath>> anywhere in the Scriptures to anyone Jew or Gentile, UNTIL you throughout all the Scriptures eschatologically and historically have <<presented the Gospel>> of Jesus Christ in his RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD “ON THE SABBATH”.

     
  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Absoutely correct.

    Yes, Paul went into the temple on the Sabbath to preach (as the manner was). Why didnt he go on Sunday - because no one would be there!

    But as DHK said - Paul was NOT commanding to worship on Sat.

    Salty

    PS Still waiting on the asnwer about the hundrds of other OT laws - does Ryan keep those also?
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    God commanded not commanding.

    That you and DHK and all the Sunday worshipping world thoroughly do see but pretend not to see.

    Because God doing, speaks; and, going before, prescribes the Way; and following after, proscribes lawlessness like a lion overcoming Christian from behind.



     
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