...then I can't help you...I got it from the Bible.
Are the Jews still God's people?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by abcgrad94, Jan 7, 2009.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Who is saying what? I've posted in post 197 my view about the whole Jew thing. So whos for who's against?
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Jews are not Israelites, Jews are those who followed the law. Otherwise you are correct. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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No they do not and it cannot be proven, unless you have Abraham's DNA. When you are reading the N.T. it is important to know who is being spoken to and for what cause. Only Judah and Benjamin lived in Israel when Christ walked the earth. Paul, when addressing jews, was referring to those who followed the law. At that time many non Israelites were jews. This distinction is crucial to understanding Paul’s epistles. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Esther 8:17
And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.
Where did this term jew come from? Read every passage that contains the term jew and you will find it refers to the religion of the law. -
Look in Nehemiah Chapter 9 and you will see this:
1] Now in the twenty and fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, and with sackclothes, and earth upon them.
[2] And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.
So there is definitely a DNA reference there... "seed"..... -
Yes, you are correct; I should have mentioned them as well. The point I was trying to make was that the northern ten tribes never returned to Israel. Those pure Israelites who returned to Israel did so to facilitate the birth of Messiah. After 70 A.D. there was not an Israelite left in Israel. I believe Joseph and Mary (Israelites) practiced the pure Law of Moses and by such were likely called jews. However, the majority of those who called themselves jews favored the Babylonian Talmud version of Judaism. This is what Christ spoke out against. Christ was a pure Israelite who flawlessly followed the law of God. He was called a jew but never called himself a jew. The term jew is religious in nature. No man alive today can prove he is blood realted to Abraham. -
I can trace back my genealogy right back to the time of the Reformation without too much difficulty. I am sure that there are many that can do better than I can especially when they have much more interest than I in doing so.
(I am not even an Israelite). -
Now you’re being silly. There is not a person alive that can trace their ancestry back to Abraham. Please use the proper term, Israelite, a jew can be of any race and it only confuses people who know the difference. -
Now at the time of Christ all the Jews were sure of their ancestry. We are given the lineage of both Joseph and Mary right in the Bible. They had to be sure of the lineage of Christ in order that he might legitimately sit on the throne of David. The Pharisees proudly proclaimed: "But Abraham is our father."
The Israelite of today has only to trace his lineage back to the time of Christ.
I doubt if it is that difficult for Israelites who, in their families, have kept meticulous records can trace their lineage back two thousand years. We have greater technology than the Israelites of the time of Christ, and they could do it. -
First, Jesus was a Jew because He was born of a Jewish mother. That's how Jewish people trace ancestry.
Next, you are wrong that no Jews lived in Israel after 70 AD.
Masada was not destroyed until 73 AD, for one thing. Next, excavations have found a Jewish settlement near Jerusalem dating between 70 and 132 AD. See here:
Next, you are wrong about the DNA. Genotyping proves that Cohens as well as some tribes in Africa are Jewish from the priestly tribe (Levi) in their DNA and that Jews have retained their genetic identity throughout the exile:
Plus what DHK said. -
Non-sequistur. We are not speaking of nor refering to cults or their views but historical data gathered in relation to early church views.
We are not discussing the validity of Pre-mil but the valitdity that it was the promiant and undisputed view of the early church for nigh 300+ years or so.
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HP I asked you the most simple question that you have yet to answer unless I missed a post. One of the first names I recall that was on the list was Andrew, was it not? I asked you to verify how and where he taught a pre-mil view.
You throw around claims such as ‘undisputed’ etc. Why do not you attempt to prove your claim with some real evidence instead of rhetoric? Show us the real facts, facts that can be examined in light of Scripture not simply man’s opinion. Show us the Scripture(s). -
Editted - I help you out, start with George N. H. Peters, more specifically start with his presentation of Justin Martyr's declarion -such as this:
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However HP, if you want the exact sourse. It was Papias, the disciple of the apostle John who wrote the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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If you think the modern Jews are not God's chosen people just ask the Germans. Do ever wonder why the Pres. of Iran is so quiet these days?? He knows who those people are!! Why do so many people on this board try to rationalize away the Bible?
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
who are you speaking to?
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