OK, that would be pride and a personal struggle and we all have those. Presuming then upon your judgment of self as such, maybe the following is also where you struggle as well, or perhaps you are assuming this on others?
Bro, as far as I know, and I could be wrong, no one here believes that doctrinal purity is the sole measure of Christ's approval.
But rest assured doctrinal purity is a gravely important matter (2 Timothy 4, Jude, 1 & 2 John). Of course you know this. There is no commendation for error, only shame brought upon self for falling short (2 Timothy 2:15).
Doctrinal error is always to be stood against, especially so when it is propagated, as on here. That said there is no trivializing of such a stance in all of Scripture.
One element of the approval of Christ for standing for the Word and truth is suffering; 2 Timothy 2:8-10; 4:1ff; Revelation 1: Revelation 1:9; Php. 1:29.
'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin Marprelate, Dec 24, 2015.
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After all, you were asked 25-30 posts ago. -
However there is also the spiritual dimension of agape and the fruit of the Spirit in the correction of error.
2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
God's results require God's methods.
And I understand that we must also "contend" for the faith which requires wisdom and discernment to know which is appropriate.
Personally, my perception is that we often go overboard with the "contending" part with one-ups-man-ship, insults and innuendo.
HankD -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I believe you will find this series helpful ,particularly the first message;
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...out+Passions&keyworddesc=God+without+Passions -
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (unto the promises)
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Why is Jesus the only begotten of the Father? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
. Such of the elect as are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers lusts and pleasures, God in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life.
2. Whereas there is none that doth good, and sinneth not, and the best of men may through the power and deceitfulness of their corruptions dwelling in them, with the prevalency of temptation, fall into great sins and provocations; God hath in the covenant of grace mercifully provided, that believers so sinning and falling, be renewed through repentance unto salvation.
3. This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person being by the Holy Ghost made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth by faith in Christ humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrence, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose, and endeavour by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things.
4. As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof; so it is every man's duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly.
5. Such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace, for the preservation of believers unto salvation, that although there is no sin so small, but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great, that it shall bring damnation on them who truly repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary. -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
look right here on this thread,,,,
from JL DAGG;
BOOK FOURTH.
DOCTRINE CONCERNING THE FALLAND PRESENT STATE OF MAN.
INTRODUCTION.
DUTY OF REPENTANCE.[1]
We have seen that religion is not confined to the intellect, but brings into exercise the strongest feelings of the heart. Love to God, and delight in his will and works, have been shown to be essential elements; and these are affections which do not play on the surface, but move the soul from its lowest depths. If, in our study of religious truth, we have proceeded thus far without feeling, without strong feeling, our labor has been unprofitable, and we would do well to begin anew. No time should be lost in securing the main end for which God's truth should be studied; and if heretofore we have treated it as we do the truths of other science, we should persevere in this course no longer, lest the profane use of sacred things become habitual, and provoke God to deny us his illuminating grace.
Love to God, and delight in his will and works, are holy and pleasurable exercises of the mind; but religion in a sinful being is necessarily attended with pain. To be at ease in sin, is a proof that the heart is dead, "dead in trespasses and sins." Every one whom the spirit of God quickens, becomes sensible of sin, and feels the pang of a broken heart on account of it. The anguish of remorse may be alleviated by a sense of pardoning mercy; but the joy of pardon cannot stop the flow of penitence. Like the woman to whom much had been forgiven, the believer, while receiving his pardon with overflowing joy, does not lose his sense of sin, but is ready to wash the feet of his Lord with tears. These tears have their sweetness.
The necessity of repentance is abundantly taught in the sacred volume. The language of Christ is explicit, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."[2] We have no right to consider our selves in the way to eternal life, if we are strangers to repentance. Nor will it suffice to have been at some time alarmed about our sin. A false repentance, which needs to be repented of, satisfies many a deluded soul.
Genuine repentance is a deep-felt and abiding sense of sin, a condemnation of ourselves before God on account of it, a turning away from it with abhorrence and loathing, and a fixed purpose of soul never again to commit it, or be at peace with it. This sense of sin drives the soul to Christ, and unites with the exercise of faith in Christ, to distinguish genuine religion from the counterfeits with which the world abounds.
Reason teaches that it is the duty of men, as sinners, to repent of their sins. When one man has given just occasion of offence to another, by the common consent of mankind it is his duty to be sorry for his offence . If we have no sorrow for having offended God, we treat him with less respect than is due to a fellow-worm. Not to be sorry is to justify the offence , and virtually to repeat it. God searches our hearts, and knows our inmost thoughts; and, if we remain impenitent after having sinned against him, it is as if we told him to his face that we did right to treat his authority with contempt. Our impenitence insults the majesty of heaven, and defies his wrath.
But the duty of repentance is not left to be inferred from the common sense of mankind. It is true, that no command to repent is found in the decalogue. That summary of duty was given to men as men, and not as sinners. It was not designed to restore man to the favor of God, and, therefore, did not treat with them as sinners. But when the gospel began to be preached, its first proclamation was, "Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."[3] In all the ministry of the gospel, this is the first duty required of men. Without it, not a step can be taken in the way of return to God; and, without it, there is no possibility of obtaining the divine favor. "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." It is, therefore, of the very highest importance to understand what repentance is, and to have such views of truth as will tend to produce it in our hearts.
When we approach a fellow-man whom we have offended, to offer to him our confessions, and seek his pardon, it is expected that we shall be sensible of having done wrong, shall regret the deed, blame ourselves for it, acknowledge his right to be displeased, and resolve, perhaps promise, to do so no more. All this must exist in repentance toward God, if we do not mean to repeat our insults to the Searcher of hearts. We may deceive a man like ourselves with professions of penitence that are insincere, and designed merely to propitiate him, but God cannot be deceived, and to attempt it is to mock him.
In order to sincere repentance toward God, it is indispensable that we should understand that we have sinned against him. Men do not usually compare their actions with his righteous law, but with the actions of other men. We walk according to the course of this world, and are satisfied if we conform to such rules of conduct as are esteemed reputable among men. Multitudes pass through life without any proper conviction of sin, and die impenitent, who have never examined and tried their conduct by a higher rule. To undeceive such persons, and to strip them of such false and delusive pleas, it is necessary to convince them that he course of this world is downward and wicked, and that their conformity to it should alarm rather than satisfy them. The doctrine of universal total depravity, is therefore conductive to true repentance.
We do not truly repent of an offence to a fellow-man and sincerely ask pardon, unless we believe that he has just cause to be offended. If his displeasure has arisen from mere mistake, we expect to appease him by giving such information as will correct his mistake. If he has become displeased through mere captiousness, we may justify ourselves before him, and convict him of the wrong. In order to the exercise of genuine repentance towards God, we must know that he has a right to be displeased with us, that he has made no mistake in the matter, and that every attempt of ours to convict him of wrong in the case, will be abortive. To impress all this deeply on our minds, it is only necessary we should be fully convinced that we are under just condemnation from God, and that all our pleas in self-justification are without foundation.
Good men have been accustomed to draw motives to penitence from the doctrines that have been mentioned. David humbled himself before God, with a confession of his natural depravity. "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."[4] He viewed his sin with the greater abhorrence, as he saw and confessed the justice of the condemnation which it received from his Judge. "That thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest."[5]
True penitence is rendered more deep and pungent by a view of the wretchedness and helplessness which sin has brought upon us. So Paul exclaimed, "O wretched man that I am; who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"[6]
[1] Matt. iii. 2. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Acts xvii. 30. The times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.
[2] Luke xiii. 3.[3] Matt. iii.
[4] Ps. li. 5
[5] Ps. li. 4.
[6] Rom. vii. 24.Click to expand...Repentance is a change of mind.
More specifically it is "a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God."
Once a person was rebellious in his attitude toward God. Then he repents. He changes his attitude.
Now he submits to the will of God. He has changed his mind in respect to his attitude toward God.
He once was rebellious but now is submissive. That is repentance: a change of mind with respect toward God.Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterDHK said: ↑If you disagreed with ITL, you didn't show how or why, neither did you refer to the Word of God.Click to expand...
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑1689;Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
RM said this about those who deny repentance for salvation;
Revmitchell said: ↑
There are some on this board who hold that position.
ITL you asked this;
InTheLight said: ↑Well, I've been here five years now, and I've never explicitly read that. Maybe they are talking in code words or something, or I've just missed it.Click to expand...
DHK said: ↑Before you got saved, or more specifically at the time of your salvation, how many sins did you repent of?
Did you repent of "all your sins"? Every one of them? Were you able to remember them all, much less repent of them all? It is an asinine position to take for the memory cannot recall every sin ever committed and thus cannot repent of "all one's sins."
Even if were possible, it would end up to be a works based salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of works.Click to expand...
Did you repent of "all your sins"?Click to expand...
Every one of them?Click to expand...
Were you able to remember them all, much less repent of them all?Click to expand...
It is an asinine position to take for the memory cannot recall every sin ever committed and thus cannot repent of "all one's sins."Click to expand... -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑WELL ITL we no longer have to look in the archives as we have a volunteer
look right here on this thread,,,,
ITL here is what many baptists have believed and were taught;
from JL DAGG;
This shallow explanation is to be rejected....this is a mere intellectual transaction which sinners do not make apart from God's grace anyhow. It is only a weak partial half hearted description.Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterInTheLight said: ↑I don't pay much heed to man made catechisms.Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterDHK said: ↑Just pointing out the absurdity of many unbiblical definitions of repentance there are. There is no concept of "repent of your sins" taught in the NT. That is not what repentance is.Click to expand...
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
They turned from Idols { idolatry is sin}....to God....That is NT repentance.Click to expand... -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑I know I read your posts...if that is the barometer...you do not pay attention to scripture eitherUnsureUnsureUnsureClick to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What verses have you offered????
You have 8 posts on here ....no scripture in any of them...the catechism s and confessions use scripture
here from the 1689;
CHAPTER 15; OF REPENTANCE UNTO LIFE AND SALVATION
Paragraph 1. Such of the elect that are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers pleasures, God in their effectual calling gives them repentance to life.1
1 Titus 3:2-5
Paragraph 2. Whereas there is none that does good and does not sin,2 and the best of men may, through the power and deceitfulness of their corruption dwelling in them, with the prevalency of temptation, fall in to great sins and provocations; God has, in the covenant of grace, mercifully provided that believers so sinning and falling be renewed through repentance unto salvation.3
2 Eccles. 7:20
3 Luke 22:31,32
Paragraph 3. This saving repentance is an evangelical grace,4 whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, does, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrancy,5 praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavor, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things.6
4 Zech. 12:10; Acts 11:18
5 Ezek. 36:31; 2 Cor. 7:11
6 Ps. 119:6,128
Paragraph 4. As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof, so it is every man’s duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly.7
7 Luke 19:8; 1 Tim. 1:13,15
Paragraph 5. Such is the provision which God has made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation, that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation,8 yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation to them that repent,9 which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary.
8 Rom. 6:23
9 Isa. 1:16-18, 55:7
This confession used 18 verses...in 8 posts you have not used the scripture yet, in fact when was the last time you offered a scripture verse? -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑What verses have you offered????
You have 8 posts on here ....no scripture in any of them...the catechism s and confessions use scriptureClick to expand...InTheLight said: ↑Just stop it with the personal attacks. You use an unscriptural term "repent of your sins", you quote catechisms that use that phrase, you cite writings by other humans, then you tell me I don't pay attention to scripture!Click to expand...
Show me a post where you have used scripture??? I might have missed it if you did....??? even from another thread...where was it? -
Iconoclast said: ↑WELL ITL we no longer have to look in the archives as we have a volunteer
look right here on this thread,,,,
ITL here is what many baptists have believed and were taught;
from JL DAGG;
This shallow explanation is to be rejected....this is a mere intellectual transaction which sinners do not make apart from God's grace anyhow. It is only a weak partial half hearted description.Click to expand...
And you have accepted a definition which is somewhat heretical. Ironic.
Let's go with your definition of repentance, or at least the one I say is wrong and by implication you approve.
"The Bible does not teach for an unsaved person to repent of all their sins. That is not what repentance is."
The above statement is what you vehemently disagree with.
Thus I ask you as I have before, before or at the time that you were saved, Did you even remember much less confess ALL your sins to the Lord in order that you could repent of them? Did you enumerate them all from childhood onward repenting of each and everyone--repenting of all your sins! -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterDHK said: ↑What are you blathering about now?Click to expand...
More false accusations?Click to expand...
and in this very thread you said this;
Just pointing out the absurdity of many unbiblical definitions of repentance there are. There is no concept of "repent of your sins" taught in the NT.Click to expand...
If a person makes a statement he should back it up.Click to expand...
What you are doing is simply hearsay; gossip is a better word,Click to expand...
and that is sin. Call it for what it isClick to expand...
Your denial of scripture is sin...yes
Look at your post. It is nothing but gossip. You don't have one fact to stand on.
This person (I can't say who) did this....yada yada yada...gossip gossip gossip
You should be ashamed.Click to expand...Click to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite SupporterDHK said: ↑So you have rejected a reasoned explanation and a scholarly definition of "repentance."
And you have accepted a definition which is somewhat heretical. Ironic.
Let's go with your definition of repentance, or at least the one I say is wrong and by implication you approve.
"The Bible does not teach for an unsaved person to repent of all their sins. That is not what repentance is."
The above statement is what you vehemently disagree with.
Thus I ask you as I have before, before or at the time that you were saved, Did you even remember much less confess ALL your sins to the Lord in order that you could repent of them? Did you enumerate them all from childhood onward repenting of each and everyone--repenting of all your sins!Click to expand...
8 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
The fact that you seek to go to an absurd example to try and cover the fact that you deny repentance is grace for all Christians is totally ludicrous.....Cautious:(CautiousThumbsdownThumbsdown
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