1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Call on the name of the Lord is necessary

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    22,015
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Now, now, Calvinists don't let historical facts get in the way of their theology.

    "No one seeks God", they say.
    What about the Magi? What about Cornelius? What about Zaccheus? What about the Ethiopian Eunuch?
    "They must have already been regenerated."

    What about the millions of millions of people that go to church on Sunday, sit under gospel preaching?
    "They're not really seeking God, they're seeking a God of their own making. A selfish God of themselves."

    What about people that went to a Bible-believing church, walked the aisle, got baptized? Then realized they never repented, had never truly believed?
    "They weren't seeking God."

    On and on it goes...
     
  2. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hold on. I agree that no one seeks God. Instead, God is seeking us. No man can come to Jesus unless the "Comforter" (Holy Ghost) DRAWS him. The difference is, I believe "draw" here means "pull", "tug" or "woo"(like He did with Felix) while the Calvinists believe it means "drag". I guess by their belief, Felix would have gotten saved if the Holy Ghost "dragged" him: Is that what y'all mean?
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,049
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wrong again. Even our Junior Church kids know better than that nonsense.

    When the Canaanites hardened their hearts against God
    And grieved Him because of their sin,
    God sent along hornets to bring them to time,
    And help His own people to win.
    The hornets persuaded them that it was best,
    To go quickly, and not to go slow;
    God did not compel them to go 'gainst their will,
    But He just made them willing to go.

    Chorus

    He does not compel us to go, No! No!
    He does not compel us to go.
    He does not compel us to go 'gainst our will
    But He just makes us willing to go.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are arguing with the wrong person, lol. I am not a Calvinist, and I regularly teach that the belief men are "regenerated so they might place faith in Christ" is erroneous. Men have opportunity during the convicting ministry of the Comforter to be saved, for it is at that time that God enlightens the mind of the natural man to the truth.

    It was the Comforter, not Paul...who allowed Felix to understand the truth. Paul was an instrument, but the Spirit of God is the Musician.

    Here is another example of men who have been shown the truth and turned away:


    2 Peter 2:20-22
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



    These men are New Testament equivalents to the Old Testament False Prophets (2 Peter 2:1) and if you look at Jude, the parallel passage, you will see these men were never saved, but the opposite, destined for Eternal Separation:


    2 Peter 2:17
    King James Version (KJV)

    17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.



    Jude
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


    12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

    13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.



    Both Arminians and Calvinists are in error. Arminians because they think men have the ability to understand the spiritual things of God, and therefore saved through what they do, and Calvinists because they teach men are regenerated in order to be saved.

    Of the two, the Calvinist teaching is less offensive, because they are at least consistent with their teaching of the depravity of man, which is precisely what the Bible teaches.


    God bless.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Calypsis4

    Calypsis4 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Messages:
    464
    Likes Received:
    19
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Darrel C, hello. It's been awhile since I've seen you posting. Hope you are doing well.

    As far as what you replied about the Arminian/Calvinist issue I agree 100%. God bless you, brother.
     
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    22,015
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Would you say that Felix was seeking God? Or wasn't he?

    I believe that no one can not come to Christ without the drawing of the Holy Spirit. But people can and do choose to hear the Gospel. I would call that "seeking God".

    Whether or not the Holy Spirit draws them can only be known by the person. It's possible that someone can become a believer the first time they hear the Word and it's possible they could hear it 1,000 times and never believe.
     
  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Glad to see you still here, Calypsis. I appreciate the kind words.


    God bless.
     
  8. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Cute little song. Reminds me of a dear couple who used to sing it at the camp meetings; Brother and Sister Shelton. Both played guitars and harmonized together beautifully. But I don't think the Lord had the hornets drive the Canaanites toward salvation.
     
    #68 SheepWhisperer, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,241
    Likes Received:
    510
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No human light of itself produces light.

    Rather, all respond to that which enables them to produce that which they were purposed.

    Felix certainly trembled as all who face certain judgment will and do tremble, but neither the trembling nor the words show any proof that he was other than that shallow soil of Matthew.

    The Word has (as all seed) the life in itself. However, unless that seed is planted in the soil prepared for that seed, the seed does not flourish.

    God had not prepared Felix for the seed anymore than He had prepared those who journeyed with Saul when He encountered the Lord. Paul responded, the others merely heard.
     
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,241
    Likes Received:
    510
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Intellectual belief, is NOT salvation.

    Intellectual belief is seen in the Scriptures such a 2 Peter 2.
     
  11. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Sir, the Holy Ghost did not waste His time convicting Felix of his sin, God's righteousness, and the judgement to come.
     
  12. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,241
    Likes Received:
    510
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sir, that is the job of the Holy Spirit for ALL of the whole world.

    Is that not the statement of the Lord?

    He will convict the WORLD of sin, righteousness and judgement?

    That doesn't mean that such is an offer of salvation, but of appointment of condemnation.
     
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,241
    Likes Received:
    510
    Faith:
    Baptist
    repeated post
     
    #73 agedman, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is true, but, ignorance is not an aspect of salvation either, as it is the knowledge imparted to men by the Comforter which leads to salvation.


    The convicting ministry is for unbelievers, SW, and is never a waste of time:


    John 16:7-9
    King James Version (KJV)

    7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;



    No man is worthy of that ministry...that's the beauty of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


    God bless.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, yeah...that's what I said. :)

    God the Holy Ghost isn't going to convict somebody's heart if He had already "decided not to prepare his heart for the seed". My point is; The Holy Ghost DID convict Felix of sin, righteousness, and judgment , it shook him up pretty bad, but Felix CHOSE to put it off. That is one thing the "particular redemptionists"(did I say that right?) choose not to accept.
     
  16. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Oops, sorry, lol. Sometimes we can misread the inflection of a written statement. Not as bad as particular redemptionists, but we all do it.

    ;)

    I agree wholeheartedly.

    Felix did draw from the ability he has, which is the proclivity to reject and rebel against the will of God.

    I will say, though, that we do see times when the will of man is over-ridden by God. We see this in Jonah and Paul on the Road to Damascus, for example. So in other words even the will that man has is not a guarantee that God will not enforce His Own will upon man. Paul had no intention of setting out that day to not only embrace the faith he sought to destroy, but to come into immediate agreement with Theology that was, from the view of a Judaizer...blasphemy. Who know how GOd may have ministered to him prior to that day.


    I don't know, to be honest, I try to stay away from many terms coined by men, and just stick to Scripture.


    God bless.
     
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    20,049
    Likes Received:
    3,456
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You completely missed the point. Again.
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,241
    Likes Received:
    510
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You missed the point.

    There is no reason to adjust the commission of the Holy Spirit to only those who will be saved or to assume, as you are doing above, to refute some manner of a view. Some attempt at refutation is futile and unworthy intellectualism.

    It is God's business to "decide not to prepare (some) heart for the seed." The work of the Holy Spirit in salvation is just as the Lord Jesus stated to Nicodemus, no person can tell were it is from or going.

    There is also no indication that the Holy Spirit had anything to do with Felix's reaction. Rather, while you look for some evidence on the outside, God isn't that concerned with the appearance. Felix was a ruthless man, who was extremely depraved. His "wife" was Herod's (the one that slew James) third daughter and although a Jew had no better character. They had three sons, one who died in the volcanic eruption of Vesuvius in 79AD. Felix ruled as one who feared being found out, as one who might flee when no one pursued. Because he knew Paul by reputation, he feared the judgment that Paul might declare as an end to his own pleasures and joys.

    There was no one time meeting in which Felix "chose" to put it off. Rather, for two years Paul regularly was in discussion with Felix. Even Felix's wife was curious about this man. But they were unchanged such decisions and putting off were merely because that was part of that of which they could intellectually select.

    He could not choose righteousness unless the God of Heaven had given him to the Son in which at some point in time Felix would be adopted. However, in the short account given, there is no evidence of any work by the Holy Spirit taking place, but that Felix hoped in some bribery money.

    In outside Biblical sources, there is not a mention of Felix nor his wife ever becoming believers.
     
  19. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    46
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No, You miss the point.
    Proverbs 26:3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back.

    You whip the horse and bridle an ass to make it do something AGAINST it's will. The same with fools; they're repeat offenders; as soon as the punishment is over (like the Canaanites) they go right back to their folly. But you did not make them "willing" in their heart.

    Somebody mentioned Jonah. Jonah was swallowed by a great fish and went through a pretty bad ordeal, so he went to Nineveh and warned the city but was that really what Jonah had his heart set on? Because the Bible says that Jonah was upset because God spared the city. Likewise, whatever is in your heart; nobody, not even God will make you change your mind. "A man's heart deviseth his way" the Bible says....... it's your privilege....but God holds the consequences.
     
    #79 SheepWhisperer, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,241
    Likes Received:
    510
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you never read that God changes the heart and when that change occurs the person is changed?

    You are attempting to place Arminian thinking as one being unwilling and forced into accepting

    That is not at all or ever the presentation of salvation.
     
Loading...