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Featured Calvary Chapels largest church, Harvest of Riverside, CA, joins the SBC

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Jul 10, 2017.

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  1. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    I agree. I think Laurie is very sincere and is, overall, a good guy. I just don't want him or a CC church in the SBC. Same as I would love for all my neighbors to be Mormons, but I wouldn't want them in my church.
     
    #41 JohnDeereFan, Aug 2, 2017
  2. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    And what reasons would you list for NOT wanting the 15,000 members of Harvest to be SBC members?
     
    #42 righteousdude2, Aug 2, 2017
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Are they still part of Calvary Chapel ( sorry if someone already answered ....)
     
    #43 Salty, Aug 2, 2017
  4. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    I think not! My understanding is they are now an affiliate of the SBC.
     
    #44 righteousdude2, Aug 3, 2017
  5. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Huh? Your OP says:
    From the 'Charisma News' article you linked:

    Pastor Laurie: "On June 12, I announced that Harvest Christian Fellowship would be joining the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). Harvest is an independent congregation that will continue fellowship with the Calvary Chapel family of churches as well, and this decision does not change our theology"
     
    #45 Jerome, Aug 3, 2017
  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Thanks! ( and thus the reason for my disclaimer!!!!)
     
    #46 Salty, Aug 3, 2017
  7. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    Where does the practice of a New Testament Church joining a Convention show up in the Scripture?

    Is there a membership fee and contract involved in joining a Convention?

    Who controls the board of trustees in charge of control of boards of trustees?

    See diocese and archdiocese, bishop and archbishop.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #47 Bro. James, Aug 3, 2017
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Does Scripture prohibit such working together?

    NO-NO-NO!! it is assumed that your church would contribite to the Co-op - but many, many do not.
    I have the last report for the Bap Con of NY - and at least 25% of our churches have not given anything to the Co-op

    Messengers who are voted by their local church vote at the Annual SBC convention
     
    #48 Salty, Aug 3, 2017
  9. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    Churches helping other Churches is evident. A convention is not a New Testament Church, but rather an entity to itself, controlled by itself by design. This is an insidious departure from New Testament Church sovereignty. See: deeds of the Nicolaitans.

    Consider: States rights, The Fed, and Special Interest Groups controlling really bad decisions.

    Even so come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #49 Bro. James, Aug 5, 2017
  10. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    We have never said that a convention is a new Testament Church!!! And in the Case of Conventions/Associations such as the GARBC, SBC, ect - they are controlled by messengers of the local church.
    Does your church support mission boards and/or missionaries - are not those mission boards an entity to itself, controlled by itself by design.
    ( just curious - what mission boards does your home church support?)

    But there is one big difference - if the Feds or State/Commonwealth govts make a bad decision - lower jursications must abide.

    NOT SO with an Independent Baptist or even an independent Baptist church - as a local church we have the right to disregard such decision - and even the right to remove ourselves from said fellowship.
     
    #50 Salty, Aug 5, 2017
  11. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    Like it, lump it or leave it. Is there a rebate on cancelled memberships?

    Does a Church with 50 members have the same voice as a Church with 5000 members?

    How are the number of messengers determined?

    "A little leaven leavens the whole lump"

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #51 Bro. James, Aug 5, 2017
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I have answered your question before - but here is the link to the SBC Constitution
    See Article III - Section 1 - Subsection (2) - {3} points <1&2> and {4}
    and while you are at it read Article IV.

    Now, I have a question for you James - Is you Church a cooperating member of the Southern Baptist Convention?
     
    #52 Salty, Aug 5, 2017
  13. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    To answer your question: No.

    Re: SBC Constitution--the first sentence comingles three different types of entity: missionary societies, churches and other religious bodies. The New Testament Church commission seems to be muddled from the gitgo. It is certainly riddled with ambiguity. The Salvation Army is a missionary society of sorts. Would they be considered for membership?

    The messengers part is seemingly slanted toward the wealthier churches, etal. Each church gets 2 minimum, with 10 more available for more donations. What about other religious bodies? This eliminates an even playing field.

    The SBC seems to have a bureaucracy that would give the U.S. government competition. There are boards, institutions and commissions. Who pays for all this administration?

    What percentage of donations actually gets to the mission field?

    I have seen several missionaries go on the field full time with the help of 5 or 6 small churches--with no administrative costs whatever.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #53 Bro. James, Aug 5, 2017
  14. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Because they would be bringing their CC doctrines along with them.
     
    #54 JohnDeereFan, Aug 6, 2017
  15. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Then you don't trust the SBC leaders to check out Harvest and Laurie? Believe me, there are very little differences between our doctrines and them, but if you believe there are, tell me which ones areso off track the SBC will be swayed? Have you even taken the time to read Harvest beliefs. They are not, and haven't been CC for years. CC just enjoyed their large numbers.
     
    #55 righteousdude2, Aug 7, 2017
  16. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    There is little difference between reformed apostasy and re-reformed apostasy. The ending is still in the pit. Now what? See Mt. 16:18 in context. The papists and daughters have not a clue.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #56 Bro. James, Aug 7, 2017
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You do not know what you are talking about.
     
    #57 Revmitchell, Aug 7, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Is that a tort or retort?

    Mars Hill is an interesting place.

    Do you decorate your meeting house for the Mass of Christ?

    Peace.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #58 Bro. James, Aug 7, 2017
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    If your question is do we decorate our meeting house to celebrate the birth of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ, the answer is yes.
     
    #59 Squire Robertsson, Aug 7, 2017
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You are truly more patient than I am
     
    #60 Revmitchell, Aug 7, 2017
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