And I define it as if some are predestined to salvation then all others are automatically predestined to damnation.
Calvinism : Questions
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by LaGrange, Nov 10, 2020.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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If God is omniscient then everything is predestined to occur as God knew it would prior to Creation. Those God knew would be saved will be saved. Those God knew would remain lost will be condemned.
God decreed that this would happen by His act of creation.
If one thing is not predestined then that thing exists out of God's purview. -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Alan Gross Well-Known Member
Just pray each time and you will be fine.
Those prayers may lead you to watch and avoid some like the plague.
I am just interested in What Worships God.
Welcome.
May God clobber (Mercifully) you WITH HIS TRUTH, like all of us, if we need adjustment and not WITH our flesh ATTEMPTING TO WORK THE GRACE of GOD!!!
That doesn't even work.
WELCOME, WELCOME, WELCOME. -
robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Barry Johnson Well-Known Member
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This is the reason we see some redefining omniscience to mean knowing all that can be known at a given time. It is to exclude knowledge of contingent events.
To illustrate a problem with that definition: prior to our conception our births were contingent. God would have been ignorant of our future existance and any events contingent on our existence as foreknowledge would not exist.
Either everything is predestined or Open Theology is correct. There are no other logical options. -
Cannot multiple possibilities simultaneously exist that collapse into a single reality once the action is taken, yet an Omniscient God already know which possibility will ultimately become reality?
I am only asking if LOGIC actually demands Determinism from Omniscience. -
Scott Downey Well-Known Member
Isaiah 46, God declares the end from the beginning, so God's will can not be thwarted
The end is as determined as the beginning, God does what He wills according to His pleasure.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
And we have at the Jerusalem council in Acts15, with all the Lord's apostles there this is said.
18 “Known to God from eternity of old are all His works.
So there really are not any other possibilities and God just chooses one like picking out of a hat. -
If I could choose door A or door B there are at least three possibilities (provided I can't choose both). I could choose door A, door B, or no door.
But if I choose door B, and if there was an entity that knew which would become a reality, then door B was the only possible conclusion out of those three possibilities. My choosing of door B was predestined in the past if we suppose an omniscient being existed prior to my choosing.
The issue is never freedom of choice but the omniscience of God. We freely choose, but that does not mean those free choices are not predetermined.
My 2 cents, anyway. -
Scott Downey Well-Known Member
This Psalm 139 shows God as our origin, our creator, and His love is for His people who praise Him. v14
God did make man from the dust of the earth... v15
And in God's book were written all of your days before you existed. v16
And God's thought towards us, here, are precious, meaning He loves His people with a great love. v17
His people will remain with Him forever v18
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You. -
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robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Now, of course, this is where objections would arise that it would be absurd to think our choice along dictates the reality of God's omniscience....and this would be correct. Something would happen, that would result in you having a sandwich on Sunday—whether it's because everything else is closed, you have a hankering for a tuna sandwich, or you were trapped in a sandwich shop.
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robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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