He doesn’t like that term! LOL
Calvinist dead
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MrW, Apr 17, 2023.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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And then there is verse 30 and 32 and 33, which even in this chapter put the emphasis on faith. Think about it, the most powerful chapter in the Bible on God's sovereignty ends with the words " and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed". So do you really want to have your response to someone who believes that whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed to be some snide remark about how "their ilk" was predicted years ago? -
Are @DaveXR650 and @Silverhair the same entity? -
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Good people don't come to God, but sinners are brought to God... Brother Glen:) -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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JD731 said: ↑
Limited atonement is among the worse doctrines ever devised. All men can believe.
Everything about the 5 points of Calvinism is totally and demonstrably untrue, false. -
What I was trying to show was that even Romans chapter 9, which I think IS a decisive chapter on God's sovereignty, you have it said several times that those who believe will be fine. We need to emphasize that to non-Calvinists who misunderstand the Calvinistic explanation of God's sovereignty. Because in the back of their minds, they have a vision of a Calvinistic God, in His sovereignty, rejecting someone who comes to Him because He chooses to. That is THE biggest objection that non-Calvinists have to Calvinism. -
There is no doctrine in the scripture called the sovereignty of God. The word does not appear anywhere in my Bibles. I will start a thread later and prove it from the scripture. My Bible does not say that God could not manage his creation and the affairs of men by the principle of sovereignty if he wanted to. It just tells me he did not and so I conclude that your reasoning and logic is non biblical and unprovable. -
@tyndale1946 . Disregard my answer to your post above. -
tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The link to Calvinism is fairly obvious to anybody who has studied both. Calvinism rightly rejected much of the doctrine that birthed their theology. James Arminius did the same with Calvinism, but I don't think his disagreement was justified.
If you doubt Calvinism is of a Roman Catholic trajectory then study both (pay attention to the writings of Calvin and Beza, along with the period we refer to as the "Reformation").
There is a reason traditional Calvinists reject things like stained glass windows, and there is a reason their understanding of the Cross is like the Catholic understanding in form while anti-Catholic in content. Calvinism takes the Roman Catholic understanding of the Cross and centers it on divine justice rather than divine merit. Calvinism rejected ornate structures because of the role such came to play in Catholic churches (not because the Bible condemns things like stained glass and fancy buildings).
There is a reason Arminianism parallels Calvinism yet never meeting in agreement (Arminius was trying to correct what he thought was wrong in Calvinism just as Calvinism was trying to correct what it viewed as wrong in the existing theology). -
I didn't say that Scripture says a Christian cannot sin. I said if a lost man cannot seek God because he is dead then it is also true that a man cannot sin because he is dead again, the opposite way, but now he's dead to sin instead of to God. Please see #21 on the other thread for clarification. And of course it does not work--because the Calvinist "Total Inability" does not work, either, but if it did, then my assertion would be correct also, per the same principle. It's my assertion, based on the T and comparing to Scripture.
How a person comes to faith? I've said it many times, but it's ok to repeat: If you never had a Bible, and never heard the name of Jesus or anything per Scripture, how would you believe God? You could make up superstitions and worship a "great spirit in the sky", but it would all be speculation. The only way you know is someone told you or you read Scripture for yourself, therefore, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. That's how a person comes to faith. He hears the Word of God, and I believe also the Holy Spirit of God witnesses that truth to the person when he hears it, but without hearing it, he will never have faith, because it's not possible to believe in a Jesus you never knew existed.
I realize you're not hyper-Cal, and I do my best to ignore them, not because I don't respect them, but because I don't want to be in the arguments over something that will not be settled until Heaven and that causes division among those who ought to be brethren. -
What the scriptures states:
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:
What Dave says:
13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
What Dave says:
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
What I was looking for is a link between Catholicism & Calvinism, surely as an ex-Calvinist you could explain how they are codependent to one another. -
One reason I don't get upset with those who come to Christ by faith yet aren't Calvinist in their theology is that I believe if you come it is because the Holy Spirit worked in you. But even if you don't see it that way saving faith is saving faith. I believe scripture supports my theology but here is the important distinction. Calvinism teaches that God has a decreed will and a revealed will. What he has decreed is what is going to come to pass. What he has revealed as His will is what we are supposed to hear and obey. His revealed will to all of us is that we repent and believe the gospel. Those who do that are pleasing God by doing His revealed will and they are part of His divine decree of election. His decreed will is that before the foundation of the world God chose an "elect" that in His timing will be brought to faith and salvation. If I'm wrong on that I'm not going to be angry if someday I find out it was totally due to my good sense that I repented and believed. And I hope you won't be disappointed if you find out someday that you were elect from the foundation of the world.
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