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Calvinistic Bible Translations

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 10, 2018.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    One determiner of how Calvinistic a Bible translation is would be to see how many times it uses some form of the word sovereign (ty, or ly). ( I realize that occasionally it refers to earthly kings.)

    KJV : 0
    WEB : 1
    CEB : 2
    Phillips : 3
    ESV : 4
    NKJV : 5
    CSB and HCSB : 6
    NASB : 8

    LEB : 11
    ISV : 15
    EXB : 25
    MESSAGE : 38

    NLT : 291
    NIV : 297
    NET : 368
    _________________________________________________________________________________
    Isn't it surprising that the so-called Calvinistic ESV came up so short in this respect? Incredibly the KJV registered zip.

    The MESSAGE, though ultra-free, got a 38!

    The NLT placed third. The NIV ranked second. And the winner is the NET Bible. Those three versions completely outstripped all the others.

    The first cluster we might call the least Calvinistic. But can we even call the second cluster moderately Calvinistic? I think not. It didn't garner enough instances of any form of the word sovereign.

    But by far, the NLT, NIV and especially the NET, could, on this basis, be called the most Calvinistic of all English Bible translations.
     
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  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Speaking as someone usually outside the fray,

    I don’t see how the simple use of “sovereignty” can be considered Calvinistic.

    If God isn’t sovereign, who is he?

    Rob
     
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  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    No they couldn't. By your own warped standards you should be accusing yourself of lying. If you take a little time and effort you will find out why the NIV uses 'sovereign' so much, and it has nothing to do with Calvinism.
     
  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    I just have to chuckle at the opening post. Why in the world wasn't the Calvinists' precious 'Geneva Bible' included in your computations?
     
  5. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    So what words do the other translations most commonly use instead of sovereign?
     
  6. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Nice strawman you built there.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The whole thing is simply a translational decision as to how to render adonai YHWH. Traditionally the two words have been translated 'Lord GOD,' but the NIV (and, I suspect, the NLT and NET) have 'Sovereign LORD.' in several places.

    So we have, Ezekiel 2:4, KJV, 'Thus says the Lord GOD......' and NIV (1984), 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says.' Whether one is better than the other I leave to the reader, but it accounts for the greatly increased usage of 'sovereign' and has absolutely nothing to do with Calvinism one way or the other.

    I also believe (but haven't checked) that 'sovereign' was not used as an adjective ('sovereign LORD,' 'sovereign decision') in the 17th Century, but only as a noun, being a synonym for 'king' or 'emperor.' That will account for the lack of appearance in the KJV and, I suspect, the Geneva.
     
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  8. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    sovereign - O. E. D.

    sovereign (adj.) early 14c., "great, superior, supreme," from Old French soverain "highest, supreme, chief," from Vulgar Latin *superanus "chief, principal"
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Except that the esv is the version that has become commonly known and seen as being the Bible for Calvinists!
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Sigh....

    Calvin Theological Seminary Celebrates 50th Anniversary of NIV Commissioning

    "Right from the start, the Christian Reformed Church and scholars from Calvin Theological Seminary have played a key role in creating — and continuing to work on — the New International Version of the Bible, says Michael Williams, a professor of Old Testament at the seminary."

    "'The NIV arose out of the CRC and the CRC has been deeply involved in working on it,' says Williams, secretary of the committee that meets every year to consider updates to the NIV....Calvin Seminary will be marking the 50th anniversary of the commissioning of the NIV with events on Oct. 8 and 9....Williams will....[be] focusing in his talk on the ongoing involvement of seminary professors in the NIV, he will discuss the significance of the NIV....He will also offer some history, going back to 1955 when Howard Long, a CRC layman from Seattle, Wash., first brought the idea of a new translation in contemporary English to his pastor."
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Niv used to be the version used by manyCalvinists, but not so much when Esv came out, and really not since 2011 revision!
     
  12. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    What, 16 translations are not enough for ya'?

    Try on the 2nd Wycliffe Bible (WCW) on for size. It came out near the end of the 14th century. It used the word sovereign 107 times, not counting its use in the Apocrypha.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Why do you have an aversion to the word the y-guy?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I don't.....
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    In the NET Bible the following verses have the word sovereignty :
    Psalm 68:34 : Most translations have majesty like the NIV.
    Isaiah 11:9 : Most translations have knowledge here like the NIV.
    Jeremiah 49:38 : Most translations have the wording set my throne as the NIV renders it.
    Daniel 5:18 : Most translations have kingship here. The NIV, CSB,NASB, ISV, and NLT have sovereignty.
    Daniel 7:14 : Most translations have dominion. The NIV has sovereign power. The NLT has sovereignty.
    Daniel 7:27 Most translations render it dominion, but the NIV, NLT and NASB have sovereignty.
    Micah 4:8 : Most translations have dominion such as the NIV.
    Revelation 17:18 : Most translations have either rules, reigns or dominion. The LEB and NABRE have sovereignty.
     
  16. GenevanBaptist

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    *Chuckle*

    Because it isn't Calvinistic.

    Plain and simple there bro.

    And yes, it is very precious, and very accurate to Baptist doctrine, unlike a lot of the versions you list.

    In 1998 I purchased my first Geneva Bible (a 1599 Tomson revision) but I have been using the 1560 edition, the original edition, since it came out in 2008.

    I am not a "calvinist".
    More properly - I am not a "bezaite".

    Because ol' Theodore Beza was the originator of most "calvinist" teaching that Baptists abhor doctrinally.

    Like predestination. The non-biblical definition that is.
     
    #16 GenevanBaptist, Nov 11, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  18. GenevanBaptist

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    Mayne
    Maybe it depends on which Greek manuscript you use?
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. The Greek text has no issue with those last three words in that phrase (. . . απο καταβολης κοσμου) Revelation 13:8.
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Look up the word "polysemous" in any good dictionary.
     
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