Calvinistic Bible Translations

[37818]

Look up the word "polysemous" in any good dictionary.

Prove that απο is polysemous as used in the New Testament phrase απο καταβολης κοσμου.

Matthew 13:35
Matthew 25:34
Luke 11:50
Hebrews 4:3
Hebrews 9:26
Revelation 13:8
Revelation 17:8

 

[TCassidy]

Prove that απο is polysemous as used in the New Testament phrase απο καταβολης κοσμου.

You obviously didn't look up the word "polysemous."

Here, let me help you.

Polysemous:
noun
a condition in which a single word, phrase, or concept has more than one meaning or connotation.
(Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2018)

 

[37818]

You obviously didn't look up the word "polysemous."

Here, let me help you.

Polysemous:
noun
a condition in which a single word, phrase, or concept has more than one meaning or connotation.
(Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2018)

So? Making a false accusation does not prove your argument. False accusations never do.

 

[InTheLight]

You obviously didn't look up the word "polysemous."

Here, let me help you.

Polysemous:
noun
a condition in which a single word, phrase, or concept has more than one meaning or connotation.
(Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2018)

Yes, we know what polysemous means.

Now explain why the only popular (or even semi-popular) translation to translate that Greek word in Rev 13:8 as "before" instead of as "from" is the ESV?

 

[TCassidy]

So? Making a false accusation does not prove your argument. False accusations never do.

You don't understand the meaning of either the Greek word or the word "polysemous." That is patently obvious by your responses.

 

[TCassidy]

Now explain why the only popular (or even semi-popular) translation to translate that Greek word in Rev 13:8 as "before" instead of as "from" is the ESV?

Well, when you are wrong your are doubly wrong.

First of all the ESV is not the only "popular (or even semi-popular) translation to translate that Greek word in Rev 13:8 as "before" instead of as "from.""

The RSV of 1952 reads "[8] and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain."

And the logical reason for the similarity is that the ESV is a revision of the RSV. I rather thought that would be common knowledge among all the bible translation experts in this thread.

 

[InTheLight]

Well, when you are wrong your are doubly wrong.

First of all the ESV is not the only "popular (or even semi-popular) translation to translate that Greek word in Rev 13:8 as "before" instead of as "from.""

The RSV of 1952 reads "[8] and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain."

And the logical reason for the similarity is that the ESV is a revision of the RSV. I rather thought that would be common knowledge among all the bible translation experts in this thread.

Yes, when I think of contemporary, popular Bible translations, the 1952 RSV springs to mind!
Y-E-E-S-S-S-S!

Now, explain why the ESV is one of the only translations that renders the Greek word as "before" while almost all others render it "from".

 

[David Kent]

Yes, when I think of contemporary, popular Bible translations, the 1952 RSV springs to mind!
Y-E-E-S-S-S-S!

Now, explain why the ESV is one of the only translations that renders the Greek word as "before" while almost all others render it "from".

Are you judging a bible translation on one word?

 

[37818]

You don't understand the meaning of either the Greek word or the word "polysemous." That is patently obvious by your responses.

You can believe that if you want.

I referenced the seven places that Greek phrase occurs in the New Testament. And your assertion, maybe well meaning, and as it is, does not convince me either. There is a perfectly good Greek phrase which means "before the foundation of the world," which occurs three times in the New Testament.

 

[37818]

Are you judging a bible translation on one word?

A rendering of one word can make a translation unacceptable.

 

[HankD]

Yes, when I think of contemporary, popular Bible translations, the 1952 RSV springs to mind!
Y-E-E-S-S-S-S!

Now, explain why the ESV is one of the only translations that renders the Greek word as "before" while almost all others render it "from".

Part of the key is in the word "foundation-katabole" It corresponds to "blueprint or architectural design".

As a Software Architect I must draw up my foundational design BEFORE I commence the actual software development.

The "list" of those contained in the "Book of Life" (of which I am one - BookOfLife.HankD) must have had to have been planned and designed from BEFORE the actual initialization of said BookOfLife.*.

"from" looks at the list "after" initialization.

ipso facto - both "before" and "from" are usable in a user guide narrative ("from" with initialization protocols- "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved").

My apologies for such an earthy explanation.

 

[InTheLight]

Are you judging a bible translation on one word?

No. There are other reasons for not liking the ESV, but this is the most blatant one, IMO.

 

[TCassidy]

You can believe that if you want.

I only believe it because you have proven it over and over again.

 

[TCassidy]

Now, explain why the ESV is one of the only translations that renders the Greek word as "before" while almost all others render it "from".

I already answered this but I will try to type it real s.l.o.w. so you can keep up.

The ESV is a revision of the RSV. The RSV read "before" and the ESV revisers chose to retain the original reading.

And, of course, as the ESV, which is a revision of the RSV, is the current most popular English translation, yes, I would have thought you, as an expert on bible translation, would have thought of the RSV as a "modern version," IE, a version based on the "modern" Greek texts springing from the Textual Criticism of W/H and others in the 1880s.

 

[InTheLight]

I already answered this but I will try to type it real s.l.o.w. so you can keep up.

The ESV is a revision of the RSV. The RSV read "before" and the ESV revisers chose to retain the original reading.

And, of course, as the ESV, which is a revision of the RSV, is the current most popular English translation, yes, I would have though you, as an expert on bible translation, would have thought of the RSV as a "modern version," IE, a version based on the "modern" Greek texts springing from the Textual Criticism of W/H and others in the 1880s.

I'm no expert on Bible translation. I didn't say the word "modern" when I described the RSV. I said it wasn't "contemporary and popular". Please don't put words in my mouth.

Why did the RSV renders the Greek word as "before" while almost all others render it "from"?

 

[HankD]

Any choices of words (assuming choices as an option) can be found in the translators publication notes.

In this choice it probably depends on one's salvific view:

"before" Calvin (generally speaking).
"from" Aminius (generally speaking.

See post 31 FWIW my opinion of the use of either.

Though I don't claim calvinism I go with "before" - probably the Software Architect/Engineer background

 

[TCassidy]

Matt CEV 25:34 Then the king will say to those on his right, "My father has blessed you! Come and receive the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world was created.

 

[TCassidy]

Any choices of words (assuming choices as an option) can be found in the translators publication notes.

In this choice it probably depends on one's salvific view:

"before" Calvin (generally speaking).
"from" Aminius (generally speaking.

See post 31 FWIW my opinion of the use of either.

Though I don't claim calvinism I go with "before" - probably the Software Architect/Engineer background

I am not sure that is entirely accurate. I am a thorough going 5 pointer but I prefer "since" as a better translation.

 

[HankD]

The Bible in Basic English, 1949/64 (BBE)

Matthew 25:34 Then will the King say to those on his right, Come, you who have the blessing of my Father, into the kingdom made ready for you before the world was:

 

[HankD]

I am not sure that is entirely accurate. I am a thorough going 5 pointer but I prefer "since" as a better translation.

That's why I said "generally"