You are making a duality where there is none. We are made a body/mind/soul or spirit unity. Our body is separated after death but we get it again later.
When we sin, it's not just our body; it's our mind and will that does that.
Are you saying that you do not sin? Please answer.
Can a Christian sin?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Aug 12, 2008.
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Thus the Bible says: "we wait for the redemption of our bodies."
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Don't know what you are trying to prove here.
It says in Ephesians that every unsaved person is dead. They are dead spiritually. When saved they are made alive; alive in Christ.
In James it says that death is the separation of the spirit from the body. The body goes to the grave and the spirit goes to heaven. We have been saying that all along.
When you say you cannot sin, you sin again.
For he that says he does not sin makes Christ a liar and there is no truth in him. That is what the Bible says, not I.
I have explained 1John 3:8,9 to you before. I have quoted a Greek authority to you. You have rejected both my explanation and an authority on the Greek language. You, in essence, reject the teaching of the Word of God here.
You do sin after salvation, and you know you do; you have even admitted to it. So why be hypocritical (another sin) about it now? -
Scripture says he that says he loves Him and keeps not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
BBob, -
You just made the duality also, your body is going to the grave, because it can't go to heaven, because of sin. Your soul is going to heaven, because it was cleansed in the blood of Christ. If it had sin, it would go to hell.
It has everything to do with this topic, the last enemy to be destroyed is death, the natural death, then we in the body shall have the victory over the grave, by the blood of Jesus Christ.
You ever wonder why your soul will go to heaven at your natural death, but your body will not?? There is a reason for it.
BBob, -
Romans 7:22-25(NKJV )
For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
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In reading the threads, it seems the misunderstanding is when salvation actually takes effect.
I could be wrong on both ends but Bob appears to be saying salvation actually takes effect when the fleshy body is dead. Not at the exact moment a person accepts Christ as Savior.
If that is true, then this would be the logical conclusion imho.
The moment in time when someone is saved prior to the fleshly death would not be as important then (it appears)
This would mean...here's an example: if someone sinned a sin unto death (let's say drunkeness or adultery) in a car, then seconds later it rolled over a cliff, unless the person repented becoming ontrack with the Lord mere seconds before their death occured, they have lost salvation.
All the good works and obedience to the Lord decades prior to these few minutes do not count.
The only thing the Lord is focused on are the mere seconds or minutes prior to the fleshy death. He doesn't judge whether to save someone based upon their whole life, but the last minutes of it depending upon whether there was time to repent.
VS....
DHK and Marcia appear to say salvation became effective immediately upon accepting christ as savior, that salvation doesn't wait to take effect until the fleshly body dies. Both seem to be saying when we accept Christ as Savior and follow him, we are saved from that moment on. -
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
You sin because you want to sin. You spirit sins. Your soul sins. One cannot sin without the other. They are both joined together. You cannot separate the two. So connected are they that even the Bible uses the two terms interchangeably.
What is the "heart"? Is it the soul or the spirit?
What is the "mind"? Is it the soul or the spirit?
What did Jesus say?
Mark 7:21-23 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
What is "within a man"? Is it the heart? the mind? the soul? the spirit?
Can you differentiate?
Out of the spirit of man comes these things. Your spirit is sinful, just as sinful as your soul.
Acts 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
--Apparently Apollos hadn't even been saved yet. He knew only the baptism of John. But he was fervent in spirit. What spirit? -
I did not say the body goes to the grave because it sins. God has ordained that our bodies are resurrected at the end, at the final judgment time. He does not tell us why.
Our bodies are not more sinful than our minds/spirits are. You seem to think sin resides in the body.
My mind/spirit/soul is not righteous - it is covered by Christ's righteousness, which is another thing. -
But I believe in two men, the inward man, who at accepting Christ is made alive in Him and raised to walk a newness of life. His sins have been cleansed up and when the natural death comes, that inward part (soul) will go to heaven, because it has no sin. The outward man on the other hand is not cleansed up, but is still in a dead state and will not be make alive in Christ until the resurrection. Then both soul and body will be perfect and go to heaven to live forever.
I believe when we accept Christ our inward man is "born again" and the outward man receives the promise of God that he also, will be delivered from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberties of the Children of God, in the resurrection.
I believe the inward man who delights after the law of God is the "perfect" man that has already cleansed up. I believe that is how you can explain many scripture, especially 1John, which say he that is born of God cannot sin. It also says, he who says he hath not sin, is a liar. If you believe as I do, those scripture are simple.
Hope that explains my belief. -
When God sees Christ's righteous, why does that not cover the body also. Do you have an answer please.
I mean you give the soul "special" rewards of heaven, but the body the grave, why?
BBob, -
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BBob, -
Romans 7:
22: For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24: O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. -
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So is the "outward man" otherwise known as the flesh to you?
I am sure the flesh is included, at the very least. Maybe you mean our outside man us which is controlled by the flesh? Your next part seems to touch on it, so it's not that important.
1Thes 5:23: Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matt 22: 37 you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment.
The inward man appears to be 4 identities in one- soul, spirit, mind and some form of "body" which is not fleshly. So the inward man that you say has already been cleansed up (or sanctified if you agree with that) includes those 4 identities. Extreme dualism possibly, but if it works.
My reply may be too confusing, sorry.
There appears many topics here that would be good to start new threads with. -
Seems to me everyone believes in a soul and a body. If thats called dualism, what can I say Joe.
BBob, -
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Rom 7:9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Mat 8:22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Dead souls in sin, burying the dead bodies.
His body did not die.
Mic 6:7Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, [or] with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn [for] my transgression, the fruit of my body [for] the sin of my soul?
BBob, -
2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
BBob, :praying:
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