You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that Bob. (You are saying it and don't know it)
You are suggesting that Christians are perfect--entire sanctification. (never)
I never suggested that sinners are habitual sinners. (I think you mean Christians here, but yet you say we sin all the time)
If you had read the link that I gave you, it says the exact opposite. Why don't you read the information I give you instead of lying about me.[/quote] (I read it and he changed the meanings the same as you, to fit his theology)
There are others who read your remarks of men being liars, so don't call me a liar, when you in fact did say it.
You are the one who continues to say "we are sinners" over and over, That is "habitual". You can't have it both ways, either we are "habitual" sinners and sin everyday, or we are not habitual sinners, but just slip up from time to time and commit a sin, that is not unto death.
You with your doctrine have boxed yourself in a corner to which there is not escape.
BBob,
Can a Christian sin?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Aug 12, 2008.
Page 7 of 13
-
-
I think there is a difference between sinning every day and living a lifestyle of sin (DHK mentioned this as well). When a believer sins, he/she is convicted, repents, asks forgiveness.
Someone living a sinful lifestyle sins without even realizing it, or if the person knows it's considered sin, they don't care. This is how I was for the most part before being saved. I would do things I knew might be considered wrong, but I rationalized them and did them anyway. I didn't care if it was wrong. I had my own set of standards and ethics. I did things I would not do now.
If I sin now, like I do every day - even being rude to someone at the store, for example, - I feel terrible afterwards! Sometimes I even apologize to the person. If pride prevents me doing that, I go home and feel worse because now I am too proud to apologize on top of being rude! I confess and ask forgiveness. I was not like this before being saved.
A believer recognizes sin, repents, and confesses.
I do think believers can fall into sin and be convicted but ignore it out of rebellion or pride. Eventually, God usually breaks them.
I keep going back to this (or maybe that's on another thread), but 2 Cor. talks about believers who were taken home due to their sin of abusing the Lord's Supper. They were basically having orgies! And they were believers! -
If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death. We all are going to die naturally anyway. If to die in the Lord is gain, then how can quicken one's natural death be punishment Marcia? Or would it be to keep a Christian from committing a sin unto death? Second death.
Why would sinning every day, not be habitual? Its usually the same sin also. You know that. What would be "habitual" by your definition??
BBob, -
-
-
The core of all this debate has been on the interpretation of this word "cannot" in this verse. BBob's theology lives or dies on this being an absolute statement that a Christian could never transgress the law, not once, no possibility. If for one moment "cannot" should mean as you say it does to BBob, then this debate goes to rest (as it should).
Good input. :thumbs: -
Come on now brother! Who gave you permission to do that? -
Mat 25:44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
Mat 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
BBob, you said that these "died in that condition". Doesn't make sense to me. You said that not visiting the sick is NOT sin unto death. What does the passage say these folks did to receive everlasting punishment?
-
BBob, -
How many times did Judas have to "betray" the Lord??
How many times did the rich man have to turn lazarus away from his table?
BBob, -
Mat 25:36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
1Cr 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
How many times are you allowed to commit these actions before becoming one of them??? When does it become "habitual"?
According to your theology, if you did not visit the sick yesterday, you are hell bound, but if you committed adultery, then thats ok, as long as its not "habitual".
Great doctrine.
BBob, -
I spoke of "practicing sin" and then I defined that in my post as a lifestyle, or sinning with no repentance. So I am not using the phrase "habitual sin" as I think it's muddy.
Am I ever rude again? Unfortunately, yes, but I find I am doing it less and less as time goes on. However, sometimes I want to be rude or start to be rude and stop myself. This is quite a big deal as when I was a new believer, I would be rude with no forethought. In other words, I see a pattern of gradually getting away from it.
This does not include how differently I feel toward people. I felt hatred before I was believer but do not feel hate for anyone now.
My understanding is that the strong rebuke to believers as to how they were abusing the Lord's supper was like an orgy- maybe not a sexual one but a food orgy.
I do not think a believer has the 2nd death, period. One would only believe this if they were Roman Catholic or thought one could lose their salvation.
Brother Bob, are you part of the Holinesss camp (Wesleyan, etc.)? Because that is what it sounds like. The Holiness branches believe that a believer can get to the point of not sinning in this life. If this is what you believe, please tell us. -
Here is the actual quote from Paul...
1Cr 6:1¶ "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?"
You added an "I" and dropped the "?" mark.
Would I dare my wife to go out and buy a car that she had already bought? NO, that would be stupid.
I might say "Dare you buy a car when you knew I was against it?"
The question mark declares the deed has already been done. The only word you can properly add if you wish to add any, but it is not necessary, is "How" dare you? You dropped the question mark, added an I to the beginning and PRESTO! your view now makes perfect sense!
I speak no falsehood brother. In fact I showed you this before and you totally ignored it. You don't care what Paul actually said, your view must stand even if you stand alone! -
"If you commit adultery without repenting, does it bring death? And I mean the second death.
BBob,"
So I ask you again:
If David had a heart attack before Nathan reached him would he be in hell today, according to your beliefs?
-
Yes, If your position is not entire sanctification, it is very close to it.
He didn't change any meanings. He gave the correct meanings of the verbs. The KJV cannot be so wordy as to translate "cannot sin" to "cannot continually live a habitual lifestyle of sin," in other words, they cannot give the actual sense of the Greek phrase in a couple words. It is our duty to "study to show ourselves approved unto God," and find out what those phrases mean. Jesus said: "Search the Scriptures." He meant it. It is a lame excuse to say: He change the meanings..." when he only clarified them.
"Let God be true; but every man a liar."
Every man (including you) is a liar. That is Biblical truth.
2. That doesn't make one a habitual sinner, in that a Christian does not live in one particular lifestyle of sin. A Christian may commit the sin of adultery. But if he lives in that lifestyle, never repenting of it, and keeps doing it over and over, that is what the teaching of 1John 3:8,9 is, when it says: one who is born again cannot sin--does not live a habitual life of sin--such as I just described. It does not eliminate sin altogether.
3. You have a wrong view of a "sin unto death." Only God knows what a sin unto death is. You do not. It may be something as simple as a lie, as was in the case of Annanias and Sapphira. But you have lied many times. So think seriously about that. It is God that decides what a sin unto death is; not man. -
Marcia; as a Christian, do you believe and live by the following?? Please read closely Marcia, you seem to be a good Christian to me and an honest woman.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 ¶ What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you
.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
BBob, -
Why keep adding to your falsehood??
BBob, -
If I smoke everyday, it is a habit.
If i sin everyday, it is a habit.
Bbob, -
"All things are lawful unto me. But all things are not expedient. All things are lawful for me; But I will not be brought under the power of any."
"I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me."
If we sin every day, it doesn't mean it is habitual. It may be different sins every day. But lying is common, along with temper, coveting, and many other sins that we don't even realize including our thought life.
Sins of omission are some of the most common--the time we spend with God in prayer, in the Word, in witnessing, in fellowship with other believers.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
--There is a definition of pure religion. Do we do that every day?
--Sins of omission are very common. -
What should be seen with a believer, which is not seen with an unbeliever, is a pattern of less sinning, more conviction when sinning (which only the person can "see"), avoidance of places or situations that are likely to lead to sin or are promoting sin, and confession and repentance of sin.
We do not become perfect the moment we are saved. We are justified and made new, absolutely. But our fallen nature is still there and we struggle with that. However, salvation frees us from the bondage to sin, which means we do have the power to resist sin whereas we did not before. But this does not mean we never sin again.
Page 7 of 13