Can a man sin a sin unto death after being born again.

[DHK]

Can you explain the salvation difference between David and Peter vs Judas? Compared to our standards of judging sin, David was the worst.

As Hank just quoted:
KJV 2 Corinthians 10:12b

...but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.​

It was Paul that said "I am chief of sinners" So I guess he was the worst.
That is among the saved. Judas Iscariot was not saved, and thus that puts him in a different category. He never repented. He felt sorry for what he had done, but he never repented, he was never saved. He went out and hung himself and went to hell. He was called by Christ, the son of perdition.

 

[EdSutton]

I am going to try to answer at least some of your questions here, Charles, if I may. I'll embolden -viz- my answers and comments to what you have raised, simply because to post the quote emblems would be too complicated for the number asked. I will also attempt to correct some spelling, to make it clearer. Hope that doesn't offend you.

God just don't save just one person. He saves a lot.

I agree fully, and nowhere does the Bible say any different.

"I am tired of this better than others junk."

If I may ask, who has posted anything like this, here? I certainly haven't said anything like that, and I am not aware that any other did either, but perhaps I missed something.

"I do not care anymore."

Somehow I do not believe that to be the case, else you would not be posting here, but maybe that's just me.

"I come on here to get answers and I get nothing but that you can lose God after being born again or you can't lose God after being born again. Which one is it?"

I fully believe that one cannot be 'lost' when one is "born again." Were it dependant on me, that would not be the case. But my salvation is entirely dependant on God. It is by grace through faith. It is depending in no way on my own works. And I'm sure that these Scriptures speaks to that. (Unless otherwise noted, all references are from the NKJV, the version that I normally use, with my emboldened and/or underlined emphases in or on certain verses.)

11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. (Jo. 3:11)

Are you ready to receive the witness of Scripture, Charles? If the answer is "Yes!", here we go! (If the answer is "No!", then I am wasting my time and yours, but I will do it anyway, for it is not a waste of God's time, nor His Word.)

8 “ For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD.
9 “ For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “ For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (Isa. 55:8-11)

13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” ...
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:10-21, 36)

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[c] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. (John 6:35-40, 47-48)

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.” (John 10: 27-30)

As I do know this is an extremely long post, I will stop here, and continue, shortly, poerhaps even in the AM. Please hold any questions or comments until I have finished the thoughts.

Thanks in advance,

Ed

 

[charles_creech78]

DHK do you sin as a born again Christain?

 

[EdSutton]

Part 2:
Continuing my previous response to charles_creech78:
Back to more Scripture:

BTW, the only reason I post so many verses in this, is if the Bible has nothing to say about this, then neither do I.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has [(possesses now) - AMP] everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has (already - AMP) passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

Did you notice the three-fold promise, here? First, the believer already possesses everlasting life. Second, he does not come into judgment. Third, he has already passed from death into life.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]
God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,(Rom. 1:16-18)
3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
God’s Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[o] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Rom. 3:3-4b, 20-26)

Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[p] 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[q] 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”[r]

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, (Rom. 4:1-8, 16a)
22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[u]
23 Now it was not written for his (Abraham's - ES) sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. (Rom. 4:1-8, 16a, 22-25)

Romans 5
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[v] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom. 5:1-2, 8-9, 15-20)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 6:23)
1There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemnedsin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[c]
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 8:1-4, 31-39)

Still long, still posting. More in the AM, God willing.

Ed

 

[charles_creech78]

1John 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the law.
James teaches If you break the law in one point you are guilty of breaking it all.
Romans 3:23 teaches that sin is coming short of the glory of God--missing the mark.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Now he that said, do not commit adultery said also, do not be disgruntled, obnoxious, anxious, etc.
All sin is the same in God's sight. Thus all sins are sins unto death. If you are worried about something and you die before you have a chance to repent, then according to Bob you would go to Hell. Likewise yourself, it is sin. You can't go to heaven because worry is sin.

DHK do you sin being a born again Christain. Bye the way you will go to hell if you don't repent of your sin. That is what Christ said. He said repent. You do not understand me and Bob . There is a sin unto death. This is a spiritaul death. Which we all have done. It will send you to hell. But you can have forgiveness for this sin unto death. But being born again you cannot sin a spiritual sin like this. You will sin as a Christain. But not unto death. He said prey not for them. They have to prey to God thereself to get forgiveness for this kind of sin. I don't thank that you will understand this. ( Inwardman- spirit) (Outwardman-flesh) (The inwardman is what is born of God.This man cannot sin because he is born of God) (The outwardman this man can sin because sin is condemned in the flesh )Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But you will not sin a sin unto death because the inwardman will not let you and that inwardman is Christ Jesus the Lord.:jesus:

 

[DHK]

DHK do you sin as a born again Christain?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Do you make Christ a liar?
Is the truth not in you?
Do you deceive yourself?
Is His Word not in you?

 

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles_creech78
Amen brother Bob. 1 john 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the TRUTH is not in us.:applause:

DHK: 1John 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the law.
James teaches If you break the law in one point you are guilty of breaking it all.
Romans 3:23 teaches that sin is coming short of the glory of God--missing the mark.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Now he that said, do not commit adultery said also, do not be disgruntled, obnoxious, anxious, etc.
All sin is the same in God's sight. Thus all sins are sins unto death. If you are worried about something and you die before you have a chance to repent, then according to Bob you would go to Hell. Likewise yourself, it is sin. You can't go to heaven because worry is sin.
__________________
DHK

Why do you say all sin are the same when scripture plainly says they are not the same?

1Jo 5:16If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

These are not my words but the word of God.

 

[Brother Bob]

Hey fellows, one and all;
I just came in from walking the dog on this the Lord's day. The sun has just topped the mountains and shinning slightly down this side, and all I could think of was how beautiful is God's creation and how good He has been to us all.
I thought I would come back in and type you fellows a message that on this the Lord's day, lets pray for one another. I need all the prayer I can get. We will all have to serve God according to our own conscious and heart. I plan on going to Heaven one day and I am sure are planning the same. So on this early in the morning on the Lord's Day, May God Bless you all.

BBob,

 

[HankD]

Hey fellows, one and all;
I just came in from walking the dog on this the Lord's day. The sun has just topped the mountains and shinning slightly down this side, and all I could think of was how beautiful is God's creation and how good He has been to us all.
I thought I would come back in and type you fellows a message that on this the Lord's day, lets pray for one another. I need all the prayer I can get. We will all have to serve God according to our own conscious and heart. I plan on going to Heaven one day and I am sure are planning the same. So on this early in the morning on the Lord's Day, May God Bless you all.

BBob,

Thank you Brother Bob and yes blessings to all.

To respond to brother Charles statement

He said pray not for them. They have to pray to God thereself to get forgiveness for this kind of sin. I don't thank that you will understand this

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.​

This last statement "I do not say that he shall pray for it" is quite a bit different than "do not pray for it". John (moved by the Spirit) did NOT say "do not pray for it" but "I do not say that he shall pray for it"​

Thw Word of God is not saying to not pray for the ones who appear to be committing this sin but John seems to be saying that it's up to you to decide as a New Testament priest about a brother committing a sin which is worthy of death (adultery, blasphemy, fornication,etc).​

The prayer might be something like this: Lord you know all things, I am pleading with you to save my sinning brother from the error of his ways but let your will be done.​

What would it hurt?​

KJV James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much...

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.​

Yes, I believe a Christian can commit a sin or sins unto physical death and he might even die a violent death or suffer a terrible calamity in his life to bring him to sanctification, but he himself (that is his spirit) shall be saved.​

As personal testimony, as a child of God there was a time in my life where I drew nigh unto the gates of death and called upon Him and He saved me. Others were praying for me as well.

Presumably a sanctified saint will not suffer the pangs of death but will "fall asleep" as the Scripture says. I know there are those who do suffer the pangs of death at the end of this mortal life and I don't judge them. Perhaps our Father is using the suffering to sanctify them and making them call upon Him, finally yielding to Him, I don't know.

Paul dealt with sinning Christians in 1 Corinthians chapters 3 and 5 (read the whole of the chapter 5 passage);​

1 Corinthians 3​

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

1 Corinthians Chapter 5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

So many children of God have been overloaded with the fact that "God is love" without the loving warning from our great God and Savior Jesus Christ:

KJV Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.​

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.​

HankD​

 

[charles_creech78]

Thank you Brother Bob and yes blessings to all.

To respond to brother Charles statement

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.​

This last statement "I do not say that he shall pray for it" is quite a bit different than "do not pray for it". John (moved by the Spirit) did NOT say "do not pray for it" but "I do not say that he shall pray for it"​

Thw Word of God is not saying to not pray for the ones who appear to be committing this sin but John seems to be saying that it's up to you to decide as a New Testament priest about a brother committing a sin which is worthy of death (adultery, blasphemy, fornication,etc).​

The prayer might be something like this: Lord you know all things, I am pleading with you to save my sinning brother from the error of his ways but let your will be done.​

What would it hurt?​

KJV James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much...

19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.​

Yes, I believe a Christian can commit a sin or sins unto physical death and he might even die a violent death or suffer a terrible calamity in his life to bring him to sanctification, but he himself (that is his spirit) shall be saved.​

As personal testimony, as a child of God there was a time in my life where I drew nigh unto the gates of death and called upon Him and He saved me. Others were praying for me as well.

Presumably a sanctified saint will not suffer the pangs of death but will "fall asleep" as the Scripture says. I know there are those who do suffer the pangs of death at the end of this mortal life and I don't judge them. Perhaps our Father is using the suffering to sanctify them and making them call upon Him, finally yielding to Him, I don't know.

Paul dealt with sinning Christians in 1 Corinthians chapters 3 and 5 (read the whole of the chapter 5 passage);​

1 Corinthians 3​

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

1 Corinthians Chapter 5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

So many children of God have been overloaded with the fact that "God is love" without the loving warning from our great God and Savior Jesus Christ:

KJV Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.​

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.​

HankD​

So you are telling me that a man that is born of God can sin? Please tell me with a yes or no.

 

[charles_creech78]

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Do you make Christ a liar?
Is the truth not in you?
Do you deceive yourself?
Is His Word not in you?

Why do you Quote what I have already quoted. I have done quoted 1 John 1:8. No I do not make God a lier because I tell the truth. No I do not deceive myself because I know that I am a sinner. No his word is not in me because I am not born again. The only way you can do these things that you ask me is if you say you are born again and lie about it.

 

[DHK]

Why do you Quote what I have already quoted. I have done quoted 1 John 1:8. No I do not make God a lier because I tell the truth. No I do not deceive myself because I know that I am a sinner. No his word is not in me because I am not born again. The only way you can do these things that you ask me is if you say you are born again and lie about it.

Perhaps you don't understand the verse, or are not reading it properly.
First it is directed to Christians, as John includes himself.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we (born again believers) say that we have not sin, ...the truth is not in us (we lie; We are liars).
In other words born again believers such as yourself lie. This is what John is saying. If you claim that you do not lie, as you have, the truth is not in you, and more than that, you have called Christ a liar (vs.10). You can't have it both ways.
You are a sinful liar that is a Christian.
Or a hypocrite that is not a Christian.
Which is it?

 

[Mr.M]

The sin unto death...

The sin unto death is a description of the last stage of divine discipline in the life of a believer. Exampled by the varying cycles of discipline the Jews experienced, so goes the life of the believer. The Bible clearly describes the discipline reality of God in the life of a believer and the sin unto death simply describes the final stage, removal from human existence.

 

[Steven2006]

"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter. Mark 3:28 (emphasis mine)


I haven't read through every post of this long thread, but much of it. While I agree that if a person is able to live in habitual sin, there might be a question of real salvation. I do believe this verse tells us that God promises us forgiveness for all sins. If one is truly saved he cannot negate that with any one particular sin. We don't keep are selves, God has promised to do that.


"In Him, you also. after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation- having also believed you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory". Eph 13 & 14 (emphasis mine)


If we start to make up lists of sins that if one falls into, will then exclude us from heaven, in essence we are still under the law. Christ's death would then not mean as much and be as complete. If so, then it was only a one time act to save, but then afterwards, it becomes up to us whether we are good enough or not good enough to qualify for heaven. Compared to God's Holy standards nobody could keep themselves. We are now only in the process of changing and working towards that, but that progression will not be complete until we are with Him.

I don't want to give the impression that sin is no big deal, scripture tell us otherwise. We should abhor it, why would a child of God ever want to willfully sin? Think about it, if Christ was punished for all our sins, each and every sin we commit we are adding to the pain which Jesus had to endure. That should make us want to cry. Also by taking the attitude that well, it is just a sin that I struggle with, we are not trusting in scripture. We are not putting our faith in the promise of this verse.

"No temptation has over taken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it." 1 Cor 10:13

The last verse that came to mind reading this thread was this one.

"Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted." Gal 6:1 (emphasis mine)

When looked in context of the sins that were just being discussed a few verses before in chapter five, I believe this verse is talking about just those sins that have been mentioned on this thread as impossible for any to commit and still go to heaven. The key qualifier I believe in describing the sins in verses 5:19-21 is the word Prasso in verse 21. The KJV translates it as "do", the NASB as "practice". When I look up the greek the word is used in the present participle tense, which is described as : "expresses continuos or repeated action." It doesn't mean that if a Christian commits any of these sins, he forfeits heaven, but rather a Christian can't live habitually in these types of sins. I believe it was Hank earlier in this thread that said this. I agree with him. If a Christian start to live to habitually in sin, and doesn't respond to chastisement he would be in danger of being called home. There are very real consequences to our sins, losing entrance into heaven is just not one of them. If we are truly saved.

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh sure, Hey fellows see those drunks over there with them women. Well, they are all "born again" Christians, for on BB they told me so. If you don't believe me there are several on there you can go and ask. Go ask Steven2006 or DHk; and some of the other ones.Hogwash. Glad I am not one they can ask. The blind lead the blind.

Num 32:23But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.

Notice the singularity of "sin".

 

[Steven2006]

Oh sure, Hey fellows see those drunks over there with them women. Well, they are all "born again" Christians, for on BB they told me so. If you don't believe me there are several on there you can go and ask. Go ask Steven2006 or DHk; and some of the other ones.Hogwash. Glad I am not one they can ask. The blind lead the blind.

Num 32:23But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.

Brother Bob, I admire you for your high standards. You are one person that when I see he has posted, read with interest at what was written. I have a high respect for you and the standards you adhere to. And I would agree with the description you stated above, that person would want to look deep inside to see if he was indeed saved. Like I tried to explain in my post (maybe I didn't do so well) I think a person can't habitually live in sin and be a Christian. A truly saved person will be taken to the woodshed. The unsaved, are not sad in there sin, yes they may be sad at some of the consequences, but they serve satan, so they enjoy the sin. But a saved person will not enjoy the sin, he will have remorse, and if he doesn't he might not be saved.

I guess what I am trying to say is I do appreciate your stand against sin. I am just in disagreement, that one sin of certain type will then exclude a Christian from heaven, I just do not find that in the Bible. What then happens? Do they have to be saved again, or are they lost forever? If a young immature Christian, comes to you and says. I was looking at a woman at a store, and lusted after her in my heart. Since Jesus told us that is adultery, do you now believe and tell him he is lost, forfeited heaven? I just don't understand that or see that in the Bible. How do you council him?

 

[Brother Bob]

No one has answered my question on if two so called "saved" people were in a field in Fla in the very act of adultery and were hit by lightning and that is how they were found still in that position, would they go to Heaven. You answer my question.

As far as the young man who said he was lusting after women, then I would tell him he had a problem for we are kept by the power of God. I believe one of you all said so in a post not long ago. I would tell him to do some soul searching and did he think a women was pretty or did he undress her with his eyes and mind. If he was guilty of adultery, then I would advise him that he was mistaken about being kept by the power of God. It is not just you, when you commit such an act, it is all those who see you, know you and had respect for you. Look what you have done to your family of believers.

It is just like the minister they just wrote about who was caught in a motel with a hooker. Look how many it has happened to lately. Don't you think that the way the church is saying, well he "slipped" a little, we give him a little time and he be alright. That is exactly what most churches are doing today. The Catholic hides all their priests who are committing homosexual acts.

What if the young man come and told me he had just committed an homosexual act. What do you think I should do. The scripture is plain on who is saved and who is not. It is man, who keeps making ways for the sinner, when God has one way, and that is repentance and saved by Grace through faith. Now the Grace don't just save you and then leave, it remains with you until the end as your keeper. I can tell you this, if you have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and the mind of Christ, then you have to take them with you to commit those acts, and I just do not believe it. Sure I am hard, but I am hard on myself too. I believe a Christian didn't just accept the Lord, I think he became a "new" creature and does not walk the way he once did. When you give me a sin that I have to look in someone else's heart to verify, then I would have to make sure before I did anything to the young man, for I can't look in his heart and see the guilt, I would have to take his word. If he committed the act of adultery, it would not be hard to work out for I would tell him he was wrong in his conviction or he would not of done such a thing. If he said he looked and it happened, I would move very slow working it out, for there is nothin hidden that shall not be revealed. I don't stand at the front door thowing people out. I haven't excluded anyone for the last 18 years as Pastor of this one church. I think there were some excluded in the church I served for 8 years before but only a couple, maybe three. Some have left on their own, for they themselves knew they were not truly right with God, and wanted to go back so they could get right and then come back to the church. Now this has happened several times.

You do not know me, but if you did, you would know that if I were caught in adultery, or I would not have to be caught, if I committed adultery, I would leave the church on my own and when I felt I had made it right with God I would come back, but look what I have destroyed. I don't know how many I have baptized or how many funerals I have preached, but I would destroy all of that, all of the sermons I have preached for 35 years destroyed and when I came back, if it be God's will, I would never have the confidence of the congregation anymore, it would all be gone and all I could do is sit in the church pews and listen until I died. Just think and look at what "one" act caused.

 

[Mr.M]

No one has answered my question on if two so called "saved" people were in a field in Fla in the very act of adultery and were hit by lightning and that is how they were found still in that position, would they go to Heaven. You answer my question.

(Partial Quote)

I will gladly answer the question. First, either one is or isn't saved. I will for the sake of answering believe both are saved in your story. So they are committing adultery and died by means of being struck by lightening. Subsequently they were found in that position (I am not sure what their bodies being found has to do with whether they were or were not saved other than to verify their act but then this story is fictional so we don't actually have to have a qualifying verifier).

And so you ask would they go to heaven?

Well, if they were saved, and I am of course believing they were for the sake or the response, then yes. However, if they were NOT saved then of course they would not go to heaven.

Apparently, and I say apparently because I don't know, you seem to believe that committing adultery makes a person unsaved or that not committing adultery saves a person. Either way both are misunderstandings of the gospel.

Salvation isn't a result of what you do, i.e. righteous works, but the work of Christ. The guarantee of salvation begins and ends with Christ and his integrity, not yours, mine or anyone else's. Hence why human behavior is an invalid means of measuring or determining a person's salvation. It is Christ's integrity, not a man or woman's that guarantees salvation. I hope that helps.

 

[Brother Bob]

Mr. M.
First is is not a truth and not fictional as you say. The positon they were found in shows what they were doing when the lightning hit, surprised you couldn't figure that one out yourself.
I will gladly answer the question. First, either one is or isn't saved. I will for the sake of answering believe both are saved in your story. So they are committing adultery and died by means of being struck by lightening. Subsequently they were found in that position (I am not sure what their bodies being found has to do with whether they were or were not saved other than to verify their act but then this story is fictional so we don't actually have to have a qualifying verifier).

Would they go to heaven.

Well, if they were saved, and I am of course believing they were for the sake or the response, then yes. However, if they were NOT saved then of course they would not go to heaven.

Apparently, and I say apparently because I don't know, you seem to believe that committing adultery makes a person unsaved or that not committing adultery saves a person. Either way both are misunderstandings of the gospel.

Salvation isn't a result of what you do, i.e. righteous works, but the work of Christ. The guarantee of salvation begins and ends with Christ and his integrity, not yours, mine or anyone else's. Hence why human behavior is an invalid means of measuring or determining a person's salvation. It is Christ's integrity, not a man or woman's that guarantees salvation. I hope that helps.

Now you have given your answer and here is God's answer. Which one you think I should take?

1Cr 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Please give a reason why you do not have to accept the word of God here, but just gloss over it, and this is just one scripture. There are many more.

Again, the world would drive by and see them and say "hey look over there at the "born again Christians" and people wonder why they make fun of us.

 

[Mr.M]

Now you have given your answer and here is God's answer. Which one you think I should take?

1Cr 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Well Bob it was YOUR question and NOT God's so you got what you asked for, my answer (of course Bob we know this is a silly game you are playing because if you really cared about strictly Bible verses to replace normal discussion you wouldn't have had the audacity to make up your own question and would have preferred a Bible question right from Scripture).

Anyway, had you asked God's question instead of yours you would have gotten God's answer. But let's look at God's question and answer and then you can have then both.

Acts 16:30-31 (King James Version)

30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

There ya go Bob, God's question and God's answer right from God's Word.

(And Bob, you have been given the truth and beyond this your contentiousness will only lead to quarrelsomeness, a sin I am sure you don't want to be found in the midst of in case there is lightening around). Next please!