Can a man sin a sin unto death after being born again.

[Steven2006]

No one has answered my question on if two so called "saved" people were in a field in Fla in the very act of adultery and were hit by lightning and that is how they were found still in that position, would they go to Heaven. You answer my question.

Nobody can answer that question because only God and they themselves would know if they were truly saved. But if they were saved, and living in willful sin like this He might have taken them home because of it.

As far as the young man who said he was lusting after women, then I would tell him he had a problem for we are kept by the power of God. I believe one of you all said so in a post not long ago. I would tell him to do some soul searching and did he think a women was pretty or did he undress her with his eyes and mind. If he was guilty of adultery, then I would advise him that he was mistaken about being kept by the power of God. It is not just you, when you commit such an act, it is all those who see you, know you and had respect for you. Look what you have done to your family of believers.

I really didn't see an answer there. Say what he described to you, you were convinced he had sinned. What is you answer to him? Do you tell him he has forfeited heaven? What then does he have to be saved again, or even can he?

It is just like the minister they just wrote about who was caught in a motel with a hooker. Look how many it has happened to lately. Don't you think that the way the church is saying, well he "slipped" a little, we give him a little time and he be all right. That is exactly what most churches are doing today. The Catholic hides all their priests who are committing homosexual acts.

I agree with you, and sadly I do believe there are many church members that go through the motions and probably are not saved in many churches in our nation. I am not talking about people practicing sin without repentance. When I think of a Christian stumbling, I think of someone that was weak and falling. But then being remorseful, agreeing with God and hating the sin, disgusted with himself for falling. Not someone glibly embracing sin. You seem to keep going to that extreme. I don't know anything about you personally or your family. But lets say if you have children, one of them who you are convinced is saved, and has lived life as you approved of for many years. If they came to you crying, and said in a moment of weakness, they sinning (one of the sins you count as unacceptable). But they were crying, full of remorse, and repenting. Do you believe that because of that one sin they are now bound for hell?

 

[Brother Bob]

Acts 16:30-31 (King James Version)

30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

There ya go Bob, God's question and God's answer right from God's Word.

Talk about being silly to give an answer like this to ok being in the act of adultery is childlike.

Jhn 14:15¶If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 15:10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

There is more to "believing that just saying it.

 

[Brother Bob]

As far as the young man who said he was lusting after women, then I would tell him he had a problem for we are kept by the power of God. I believe one of you all said so in a post not long ago. I would tell him to do some soul searching and did he think a women was pretty or did he undress her with his eyes and mind. If he was guilty of adultery, then I would advise him that he was mistaken about being kept by the power of God. It is not just you, when you commit such an act, it is all those who see you, know you and had respect for you. Look what you have done to your family of believers.

I really didn't see an answer there. Say what he described to you, you were convinced he had sinned. What is you answer to him? Do you tell him he has forfeited heaven? What then does he have to be saved again, or even can he?

If he convinced me that he was an adulterer, I would withdraw from him.

I agree with you, and sadly I do believe there are many church members that go through the motions and probably are not saved in many churches in our nation. I am not talking about people practicing sin without repentance. When I think of a Christian stumbling, I think of someone that was weak and falling. But then being remorseful, agreeing with God and hating the sin, disgusted with himself for falling. Not someone glibly embracing sin. You seem to keep going to that extreme. I don't know anything about you personally or your family. But lets say if you have children, one of them who you are convinced is saved, and has lived life as you approved of for many years. If they came to you crying, and said in a moment of weakness, they sinning (one of the sins you count as unacceptable). But they were crying, full of remorse, and repenting. Do you believe that because of that one sin they are now bound for hell?

If it were a sin such as adultery, I would ask them to write the church and have their name removed. They would tell you the same. I would be glad, if they were mistaken in their conviction and they came to me for they would still have time to make it right with God. I really do not have to deal with people who want to stay in the church after committing such a sin. They come to me and tell me, and say please remove my name, so I can make it right with God and I will be back them. None of them want to be hypocrits, for living the life of a hypocrit in church, I doubt you could be saved. I had a minister of many years service come to me and tell me exactly that and ask me to remove his name. Seems like all the cases you fellows have to deal with, they still want to stay in. If it were me, I couldn't get away fast enough, after falsly standing upon Holy ground all those years, and profess to be something I was not.

 

[Steven2006]

As far as the young man who said he was lusting after women, then I would tell him he had a problem for we are kept by the power of God. I believe one of you all said so in a post not long ago. I would tell him to do some soul searching and did he think a women was pretty or did he undress her with his eyes and mind. If he was guilty of adultery, then I would advise him that he was mistaken about being kept by the power of God. It is not just you, when you commit such an act, it is all those who see you, know you and had respect for you. Look what you have done to your family of believers.
If he convinced me that he was an adulterer, I would withdraw from him.

So even if he was repentant, instead of council, you would separate from him? What about Gal 6:1 ?

And I am really curious of your answer to this part of the question. Does he have to be saved again? Or can he even be saved again in your opinion, or is he doomed to hell with never any chance of heaven?

 

[Brother Bob]

So even if he was repentant, instead of council, you would separate from him? What about Gal 6:1 ?

And I am really curious of your answer to this part of the question. Does he have to be saved again? Or can he even be saved again in your opinion, or is he doomed to hell with never any chance of heaven?

I don't think he was ever saved to start with. Probably one of these who was baptized as an infant and told he was saved all his life until he actually believed it.

Lot of difference in a fault and a sin of adultery. You went from adultery to a fault.

Gal 6:1


1: Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

You must understand that I believe the timber is made ready in the field, so when it comes in it will fit in the building. You have to be able to accept that many come in for symathy, girl friend want them to, father and mother wants them to, it would be cool, many reasons, while not really saved. I don't believe in this coming up to the altar, saying a sinners prayer and that is all there is to it. I believe there is a travial from nature to Grace and that we must acknowledge our sins and be forgiven and God adds to the church such as should be saved, not me and you.
Mostly, I do not believe a hypocrit can be true enough to be saved until he acknowledges what he is and confesses to the Lord. The Lord already knows he is playing the role of hypocrit and if he does not confess it to him, then the Lord knows he still has deception in his heart.

Rom 6:6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin

Rom 6:7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Can anyone on this board forgive "adultery"?

 

[charles_creech78]

Perhaps you don't understand the verse, or are not reading it properly.
First it is directed to Christians, as John includes himself.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we (born again believers) say that we have not sin, ...the truth is not in us (we lie; We are liars).
In other words born again believers such as yourself lie. This is what John is saying. If you claim that you do not lie, as you have, the truth is not in you, and more than that, you have called Christ a liar (vs.10). You can't have it both ways.
You are a sinful liar that is a Christian.
Or a hypocrite that is not a Christian.
Which is it?

DHK God said that you cannot sin being born again so how are you calling me a lier.You are not calling me a lier you are calling God a lier. I have told you I am not a Christain But know you Judge me saying that I am a hypocrite. Do you know what a hypocrite is. Someone that tells someone not to do that and they do it. I have told you already that I am not a Christain. I am not a hypocrite nether . You say that God did not say a man that is born of him cannot Sin. Read all of first John chapter 3 and tell me who he is talking to there. He is not talking to the sinners.Verly verly I say unto you except a man be BORN AGAIN HE CANNOT SEE THE KINDOM OF HEAVEN. If you sin you are of the devil. This is what God said not me. You must be hiding something. Because you don't like this saying. If a man that is born of God cannot sin. Is that because if you sin you are not born of God.Is that why you don't like that scripture. See that is the reason I understand is because I know if I sin I am going to a devils hell. You thank if you sin you are going to heaven.Luk 13:27 But he shall say,I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, ALL YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY. I never knew you.

 

[charles_creech78]

I don't think he was ever saved to start with. Probably one of these who was baptized as an infant and told he was saved all his life until he actually believed it.

Lot of difference in a fault and a sin of adultery. You went from adultery to a fault.

Gal 6:1


1: Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

You must understand that I believe the timber is made ready in the field, so when it comes in it will fit in the building. You have to be able to accept that many come in for symathy, girl friend want them to, father and mother wants them to, it would be cool, many reasons, while not really saved. I don't believe in this coming up to the altar, saying a sinners prayer and that is all there is to it. I believe there is a travial from nature to Grace and that we must acknowledge our sins and be forgiven and God adds to the church such as should be saved, not me and you.
Mostly, I do not believe a hypocrit can be true enough to be saved until he acknowledges what he is and confesses to the Lord. The Lord already knows he is playing the role of hypocrit and if he does not confess it to him, then the Lord knows he still has deception in his heart.

Rom 6:6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin

Rom 6:7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Can anyone on this board forgive "adultery"?

Amen brother Bob

 

[npetreley]

No one has answered my question on if two so called "saved" people were in a field in Fla in the very act of adultery and were hit by lightning and that is how they were found still in that position, would they go to Heaven. You answer my question.

I won't guess about their salvation but I would go so far as to guess that it's no coincidence that they were hit by lightning.

 

[charles_creech78]

Brother Bob, I admire you for your high standards. You are one person that when I see he has posted, read with interest at what was written. I have a high respect for you and the standards you adhere to. And I would agree with the description you stated above, that person would want to look deep inside to see if he was indeed saved. Like I tried to explain in my post (maybe I didn't do so well) I think a person can't habitually live in sin and be a Christian. A truly saved person will be taken to the woodshed. The unsaved, are not sad in there sin, yes they may be sad at some of the consequences, but they serve satan, so they enjoy the sin. But a saved person will not enjoy the sin, he will have remorse, and if he doesn't he might not be saved.

I guess what I am trying to say is I do appreciate your stand against sin. I am just in disagreement, that one sin of certain type will then exclude a Christian from heaven, I just do not find that in the Bible. What then happens? Do they have to be saved again, or are they lost forever? If a young immature Christian, comes to you and says. I was looking at a woman at a store, and lusted after her in my heart. Since Jesus told us that is adultery, do you now believe and tell him he is lost, forfeited heaven? I just don't understand that or see that in the Bible. How do you council him?

This man that done this was never born again. He is still in his sins. He deceaved his self thanking that he was something and he wasn't. That is why Christ said marvil not at this . You must be born again not of a corrupt seed but of a incorrupt seed by the word of God that liveth and abideth forever and that word is Jesus Christ.

 

[npetreley]

I have told you I am not a Christain

Why are you here on a Baptist Board then?

 

[EdSutton]

This man that done this was never born again. He is still in his sins. He deceaved his self thanking that he was something and he wasn't. That is why Christ said marvil not at this . You must be born again not of a corrupt seed but of a incorrupt seed by the word of God that liveth and abideth forever and that word is Jesus Christ.

I was composing part three of my resposne to you earlier, and saw almost three hours of putting it together go "Poof!" and disappear into cyberspace, probably due to my own weak computer skills, and not to be retrieved, by my weak efforts. I shall attempt again, shortly.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I have a list of "sins unto death", according to some here that I want to ask if anyone actually considers them to be such, and/or that such who commit these sins cannot possibly be saved individuals? Or do just some of them, rise to this level?

Here are some categories:

1. Lust, which can lead to overt Adultery, which I'll call category 1a.
2. Murder
3. Drunkenness
4. Incest
5. Stealing and/or Swindling
6. Prostitution
7. Extreme Polygamy (Many wives, not just two or three.)
8. Apostasy (denying the Lord)
9. Womanizing (whatever that actually may mean)
10.Willful unbelief (again, whatever that may mean)
11. Cowardice
12. Willful disobedience to God
13. Open strife between or among those who claim to be believers. Would this count as 'hate'?
14. The worst sins of any other kind one can think of, since I'm running out of fairly easy categories. But I have listed 15 categories, counting my first part as two distinct ones.

What do you any of you say, here? How many of them, are 'damning', how many of them are not actually 'damning', and how many are forgiveable for the one who commits them? I really wonder what some of you have to say about any or all of these or perhaps even more sins that I could not think of quickly, off the top of my head, in this?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

1. Adultery
2. Murder
3. Drunkenness
4. Incest
5. Stealing and/or Swindling
6. Prostitution
7. Extreme Polygamy (Many wives, not just two or three.)
8. Apostasy (denying the Lord)
9. Womanizing (whatever that actually may mean)
10.Willful unbelief (again, whatever that may mean)
11. Cowardice
12. Willful disobedience to God
13. The worst sins of any other kind one can think of, since I'm running out of easy categories.

They are all forgiveable for the one who commits them.

Just don't tell me if a person wants to do all them things all he or she had to do, is get "saved" then go for it.

Wonder why John the Baptist lost his head for telling the King, it was lawful for him to have his brother Phillip's wife, when according to many on here, all John would of had to say was "hey king, join the church and be saved, then you can anyone's wife you want". Old Bro John could of eat supper that evening. hooey.

 

[EdSutton]

They are all forgiveable for the one who commits them.

Just don't tell me if a person wants to do all them things all he or she had to do, is get "saved" then go for it.

Wonder why John the Baptist lost his head for telling the King, it was lawful for him to have his brother Phillip's wife, when according to many on here, all John would of had to say was "hey king, join the church and be saved, then you can anyone's wife you want". Old Bro John could of eat supper that evening. hooey.

Some of this post is simply a false issue. I said nothing about anyone wanting to do any of these, then supposedly "getting saved", so they would have an excuse to go ahead and do them. That implied example is "hooey."

The real question, at least according to one poster is, is it possible for a believer do any (or all) of these (or similar) sins?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

The real question, at least according to one poster is, is it possible for a believer do any (or all) of these (or similar) sins?

Ed

too broad of a brush for me. Especially when you don't even know what some of them are, and neither do I.

 

[EdSutton]

too broad of a brush for me. Especially when you don't even know what some of them are, and neither do I.

I actually do know what all of them are, except for the last category which I admit was a "catch-all" for heinous sins, but what another person considers 'womanizing' for the best example, may not be what I see it to be. So leave off 'womanizing", if that will help.

The rest seem pretty much self-explanatory, to me, if one understands the definitions of English words.

How about you? Do they not seem to be pretty much self-explanatory to you?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

what do you mean by cowardice? of what?

:sleeping_2: :sleeping_2: nite Ed; I pray the Lord watches over you and your bride through another nite and we both can see the beauties of a glorious morning in the Lord.

BBob,:wavey:

 

[EdSutton]

what do you mean by cowardice? of what?

:sleeping_2: :sleeping_2: nite Ed; I pray the Lord watches over you and your bride through another nite and we both can see the beauties of a glorious morning in the Lord.

BBob,:wavey:

Cowardice, Shaking in fear, and hiding behnd closed dorrs, such as did the disciples shortly after Jesus' crucifixion, for one Biblical example, or being afraid of what someone may say, do, or think about you, in another way of saying it. Or as we say in these hills around Central KY, someone who has a mile-wide "yellow" streak 'down' the middle of their back. G'nite, Bob.

Ed

 

[DHK]

They are all forgiveable for the one who commits them.

Just don't tell me if a person wants to do all them things all he or she had to do, is get "saved" then go for it.

Wonder why John the Baptist lost his head for telling the King, it was lawful for him to have his brother Phillip's wife, when according to many on here, all John would of had to say was "hey king, join the church and be saved, then you can anyone's wife you want". Old Bro John could of eat supper that evening. hooey.

That is not what you said previous to this Bob. You said that if one was caught in adultery (for an example), had an heart attack while doing it with no chance for repentance, he would go to Hell. We have been over this issue dozens of times, and I remember your stance on this. Thus you say that these sins are not "forgiveable" if the person has not repented of them before death (even if he hasn't had the chance to repent of them)

OTOH, you also have agreed with Charles that a born again Christian cannot commit sin, any sin. So how could these sins be forgiveable if they cannot be committed in the first place. You contradict yourself.

 

[charles_creech78]

That is not what you said previous to this Bob. You said that if one was caught in adultery (for an example), had an heart attack while doing it with no chance for repentance, he would go to Hell. We have been over this issue dozens of times, and I remember your stance on this. Thus you say that these sins are not "forgiveable" if the person has not repented of them before death (even if he hasn't had the chance to repent of them)

OTOH, you also have agreed with Charles that a born again Christian cannot commit sin, any sin. So how could these sins be forgiveable if they cannot be committed in the first place. You contradict yourself.

DHK A born again Christain cannot sin. This is what the bible said not me or Bob.No not just any sin a spiritual sin he cannot do.