Featured can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?

OK, we can agree on that. He illuminates the Scriptures.
The scriptures also say that he has come to convict, and convict of sin, or righteousness, and of judgment. Those are the ministries of the Holy Spirit.

But that is not what you were inferring before.
Like evangelist-7 has said: "I had a dream;" "The Spirit spoke to me in a vision;" "The Lord said to me;" etc.
If the Lord actually spoke to you, whether in dreams, visions, or in a voice, then we assume it is inspired. We need to add it to the Bible don't we? If he spoke revelation to you, then revelation is revelation, otherwise why are you claiming it to be so? If He speaks then it is revelation, isn't it? What did he reveal to you that isn't in the Bible already? "Revealing" is revelation. Thus the claim to inspiration.

Yes, he guides. But he does not "speak," as in "The Lord said to me."

Throughout all these threads you have exalted the Holy Spirit more than Christ. The Bible says not to do that. It expressly tells us:
"Consider Jesus, who endured such contradiction against himself."
"Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith."
Jesus is the object of our faith.
But you continue to put the Holy Spirit out there, even when it is His ministry to glorify Christ.

That is an outright lie. How would you know? How many Baptist churches have you been to? Have you been to ours? No.

Yes, I do the work of the Holy Spirit as he has set it out for me in the Word. But you don't seem to know what his work is, so you don't understand that. There is His work which he has commanded us to do. You neglect that because you neglect to study the Word.
I also submit myself to him and allow him to work through me.
Through a study of His word, I find that the "gifts" you seek after are not to be "sought" after, and furthermore, they have ceased.

You have posted almost 1700 times on this board an now you say I have no proof about your experiences or your beliefs. That is hilarious!

I did stay within scriptures. But there is nothing wrong with using some examples to demonstrate what the scriptures do say or not say.

Stay within scriptures! Nowhere does the Bible teach that the two are linked. Baptism of the Holy Spirit takes place only at conversion. The power is available after conversion. You are confused.

 

Why should it have to be part of the Bible? If could be just God wanting to reveal something to that person!

I do not limit God! He has never spoken to me in an audioble voice...but I will never say that he can not!

No, I do not! I have shared on many threads the ministry of the Holy Spirit but that does not mean it diminishes Christ in anyway!

There are sooooo many churches that go by Baptist and everyone of them will differ on several doctrines!

Lets see what the Word says about that and not DHK...
1 Cor. 14:1 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that you prophesy." (Prophesy is a gift and it tells us to desire spiritual)
vs. 12 " Even so ye forasmuch as ye are zealous of spritual gifts, seek that ye may exel to edifying the church." He said we are zealous of spiritual gifts..just use them to edify the church.
vs. 18 "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:"
vs. 39 "Wherefore brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues.
My Bible says to seek spiritual! Nowhere in the Word had it said that they have ceased!

THis is what you accused me of..."On the other hand what you describe as the work of the Holy Spirit are mindless and selfish experiences that are not Biblical and are not found in the Bible. They don't edify anyone but yourself, and that only because it gives you a good feeling. But the Bible condemns even that. We don't run our lives by our feelings" ....and I repeat! YOu have no idea of how the Holy Spirit works through me or who else is benefited by it. You put yourself ad judge of peoples heart and lives! Just because I believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit and walk in it, you accuse me of being selfish...that is almost funny how you get selfish out of that!

No, it come across more like bragging on the thread. So before you take the splinter out of my eye..take the log out of yours first!

I showed at least 4 examples in ACts where they were separate after Pentecost! I did not even include Paul's experience! OH, I FORGOT YOU TOOK ACTS OUT OF YOUR BIBLE! We can not learn from that book...lol!

 

You ignore Scripture. You really need to go and take a year of basic bible courses at a sound Bible college.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Notice how God spoke to the OT saints: through the prophets in various ways: dreams, visions, audible voices (eg. Samuel), and in different other ways.
But today (vs.2), He speaks to us through His Son. The Word of God has revealed to us the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the way he speaks to us today, not in various experiences that the Charismatics claim.
--Over and over again we are commanded to:
Study to show ourselves approved unto God.
Search the Scriptures.
Meditate upon the Word.
Take heed unto the doctrine.
Contend for the faith.
--These oft repeated commands of Scripture infers that one know doctrine, and doesn't base their life on their experiences.

That is a lame statement. Again, Heb.1:1,2: God already has limited himself. He doesn't work in the way he did in the OT--speaking in an audible voice as he did to Samuel. He just about spells that out for you and yet you don't believe!

Here is more Scripture
2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
--"The holy mount" refers to the Mount of Transfiguration. In these 3 verses Peter just described the greatest experience that he or any other human could ever have--meeting the glorified Christ along with Elijah and Moses. There could be no greater experience than that.
Now he warns these believers that experiences are not the most important thing. See what he says next--more important than such experiences.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
--This verse to the end (vss.20,21), speak of the Scripture that we have.
Scripture is more reliable than any experience we have, including Peter's eyewitness account of the Transfiguration. We can trust the Word of God. We can't trust people's tongue-speaking experiences, nor what other experiences they may have, but we can trust the Bible. That is what Peter is teaching.
Today, God speaks to us through His Word.

It is a simple yes or no question. Which person of the trinity do you talk about most? If we allow the other posters to answer for you, what do you think they will say?

That is ok. You stand aloof calling 1900 years of church history and doctrine as false. You are not the one to criticize!

Prophesy, according to 1Cor.13:8 has ceased.
The spiritual gifts, other than love, have also ceased. The letter was written to the Corinthian church in ca. 55 A.D. before the gifts had ceased.

Who is zealous....? The Corinthian church.
Who is to seek? The Corinthian church!
He did not say YOU were to be zealous of these gifts.

What has that got to do with you. God gave Paul the gift more than them all. He was one of the apostles and it was an apostolic gift. Are you claiming to be greater than the Apostle Paul?? Now that is arrogance!

Spoken to the first century Corinthian church, and not applicable to us today.
Here is an example:
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
--Perhaps you are like one of the seven sons of Sceva, trying to imitate Paul. Read and see what happened. It is dangerous to imitate gifts that aren't yours; gifts that ceased at the end of the first century.

The modern tongue movement started in 1905. By the most modern and scholarly linguistics, those tongues that you are so familiar with are not languages as the Bible speaks of tongues. Your tongues are gibberish--nonsense syllables strung together. They don't make sense, not even to God.
--A mindless, selfish, emotional experience that doesn't edify anyone but your own self.

I do know what the Bible teaches about tongues.
I know what you have said about tongues.
And I repeat that your gibberish is not tongues. In fact if you do not know what you are saying, it could be a demon saying it. How would you know? You just empty your mind and allow whatever to come and fill it--a dangerous practice.

I judge all things by the Word of God.
The Holy Spirit does not work through "gifts" that have ceased.
I have repeatedly challenged you to give me actual documented sources of examples where Biblical tongues, or the Biblical gift of healing, or the Biblical gift of miracles are being exercised today. But you can't do it. You claim they are for today, but there is no evidence of it. So what you say is pure hypocrisy.
Where does God give people languages so they don't have to learn them?
Where does God give people the gift of healing as in Acts 5:16?
Who has the gift of miracles today?
You have never been able to provide any evidence of these things.
It is all a big act; hypocrisy.

When you brag that you can speak in tongues but you really can't, what do we call it?

 

You limit Jesus only Speaking through His word (which I do believe that is the main way he speaks). I agree with scriptures...God speaks through His Son! But I do not limit Him as you do! The Holy Spirit can speak to our spirit in many ways!

We can not ignore our experiences either! My experiences with God does not contradict His Word!

You continue to ignore Acts 2 therefore we can not debate this issure! His word is plain how He speaks to us in the Last days!

I never ask anyone to trust my experiences...But It is Christ in us that we have a more sure word of prophecy...He lives in our spirit..He speaks to our spirit! No where in the scriptures above does it limit God to just His written word! He never contradicts His Word. His personal speaking to each of us does not change or add to His word.

The posters here along with you are not my judge! God ONLY knows my heart! Your snide remarks looks worst than my postings! Besides most of my posting is in defense to you and others! I honor all three!

But you on the other hand have every right to be critical?????? Ok, I get this picture! Only DHK has the authority to be critical of other denominations...that is funny!

I will not discuss tongues with you any longer DHK! I do not have to prove anything to you! You know...I do not ask you to prove you are a christian on every thread!! But again...I am not a judge of peoples hearts as you seem to be.

NOW WHY DON'T YOU LAY OFF ME FOR AWHILE AND GET THIS THREAD BACK ON TOPIC...WORD OF FAITH HAS NOT BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE LAST 3 PAGES!

 

I'm not positive what you mean by "audible voice".
But, I know that you know that God speaks to us "in the Spirit", i.e. not in the physical world.
What we hear is NOT with any help of our ears!

I have heard God speaking:
-- in the famous still small voice
-- in a medium-volume voice
-- in a LOUD voice ... this was just a nice big fat "NO!"

Then there was the time when several of us heard the angelic choir singing LOUDLY.

But, my experiences are nothing compared to some people.
Have you heard that Jesus Himself has appeared in a vision (not a dream) to Muslims ... separate visitations!
.

 

Where does God condone speaking in gibberish?

 

I mean that I have never heard Jesus with my physical ears (audible)!!
I believe in visions and dreams...yes! I have heard testimonies from Muslims that testify to that!

 

I realize that The book of Acts was the beginning of the ACTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT..that are still here today!

Can you show me this in scriptures?

I do not tell them anything! I just obey the Word...lay hands on them and pray for them! The power to heal is God's!

 

Sorry, Yeshua...but he does! I have witnessed it first hand!

 

I never said I spoke gibberish! You are the one that called the gift of God, gibberish!

 

If you don't know the language you speak then I will assume it is gibberish--nonsense syllables strung together.
So what languages do you speak? What languages has the Lord "gifted" you with? That was the miracle. But you don't have that. You have "gibberish," just a bunch of nonsense!

 

24 hours a day on TBN, when some preacher bursts forth in unintelligible syllables to show how free and super-spiritual he is. Here you have the scripture violated twice: 1. with gibberish 2. no interpretation of the gibberish.

But these people are on a higher spiritual plane than the rest of us ordinary, lowly believers who only were baptized in the HS at our conversion, so why should we doubt them or their experiences, especially since they strived and sought so hard to get these experiences and this supposed extra HS baptism, while we are just too darn lazy, content, spiritually immature, and ignorant of how God works to bother to progress.

 

There are Christian charismatics.

There is a group within Islam who speak in tongues.

In Japan Japan, on the Hokkaido and Honshu islands,the Ainu people speak in tongues.

Shamans throughout the ages have spoken in tongues.

There are groups in Africa who speak in tongues.

Seems tongues is very widespread.

 

You have yet to show me where in scritures that we have to know the language that we speak! You have also yet to show me where I have to prove anything to you!

Scriptures contradict what you are telling me to do or know!
The ones speaking on the Day of Pentecost did not know the language..the ones hearing understood in their language!
In Acts 10 it does not say that the ones speaking knew the language they were speaking nor was it interpreted!
Acts 19 it does not say the ones speaking knew the language they spoke by the Holy Spirit, nor was it interpreted!
1Cor. 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" ...it says that we speak to God..that is prayer!
1 Cor. 14:13 "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret"...Funny, if we knew the language we were speaking, why would he tell us to pray for the interpretation?

Yet. you want me to prove tongue is from God by telling you what language I speak?????

 

Mucho thanks ...

When I read this, I got a nice ...

New Flash ...

YES, things ARE different today regarding those things, i.e. everyone is NOT being healed by the Lord.

Back then ... people had just recently gone though Pentecost, and everyone was filled with BELIEF.

Transition Period ... Satan and church leadership managed to bring in UNBELIEF (piece of cake for them).

Today then ... we have great gobs of UNBELIEF.

End of da News Flash

Duz I need to explain to you how the Lord responds to UNBELIEF?

P.S. still laughin' @ da revster, BTW.
.

 

Prove it to God. If God says you are wrong then stop.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
--This verse is a rebuke. Tongues was meant to edify all not to be used as a selfish gift for edification of one person. He that speaks in a language doesn't speak to men, but to God; for no man understands him.
In that much alone he was not to speak in this language that God had gifted him with. (The word "unknown" is provided by the translators, and is not in the original). The word "tongue" means language as in "mother tongue." If you can't be understood by the others then shut up. You are not edifying anyone.

1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
--Same teaching: He that speaks in a foreign language only edifies himself. It is therefore a useless gift.

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Gibberish cannot be understood; neither can foreign languages that no one can understand. Speak in the known language of the day--in simple words that people can understand or don't speak at all. You are simply speaking into the air--not even unto God.

1 Corinthians 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
--If you don't know the meaning, awaken, you are like a barbarian. That is a serious charge. You are to know the meaning of that which you speak. You are a barbarian yourself and those that listen are like barbarians to you. Barbarians speaking to barbarians. What wonderful conversation! Look up what the word " barbarian" means.

Is that enough proof for you? Understanding was essential--to both parties.

You contradict the Word of God with this view. What was the gift that was given the disciples. It plainly says: "and they spoke with other tongues."

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
--Do you deny this verse?

More accurately put:
Acts 2:4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak. (WEB)

Now there are listed a number of different nationalities--at least 13 that were present. What happened?
Acts 2:6 When this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because everyone heard them speaking in his own language.
They heard them speak in his own language. There is no miracle in hearing. They heard them speak in their language. The miracle was that these 120 were speaking in their mother tongue or their own languages.

The Egyptians heard Egyptian.
The Arabians heard Arabic.
The Libyians spoke either Berber or Punic.
The Romans spoke Latin.

They heard various of the 120 speak in their own language. The 120 did not all speak either in Greek or Hebrew. They spoke in different languages, and they heard them speak in those languages. They could pick out the ones speaking in their own languages. That is what happened. The miracle, stated, was "they spoke in other languages." The Bible states that. You can believe the Bible or remain in your own unbelief.

They spoke in anther known language. They knew it. How could they speak it if they didn't know. That is what the gift of languages is all about. God gave them the ability to speak another language. Clearly you lack understanding of this gift, and therefore justify your habit to speak gibberish.

They spoke in another language. That is what tongues means. It does not mean gibberish as you would have it translated. It was the gift of languages. It was a gift that God gave them.

No, it is not prayer. It is speaking in another language, a language that no one else in the congregation knows, to God. Why would a person do that? Therefore the gift is useless.

Because it was a foreign language that no one understood.
Secondly, the interpretation of that language was primarily a sign for the Jews. They weren't even to use their gift unless Jews were present.

Absolutely!!
The gift of languages is a gift to speak a known language--a language that God has given you that you didn't know previously. If you don't know what you are speaking it is not of God, possibly even from a demon. How would you know??

 

Just happened to catch the last part of your long post.

Gee, I can't figure out what the spiritual power gift of interpretation of tongues (1 Cor 12) is for.
Oh, well ... maybe some day it'll come to me.
.

 

Interpretation was either for the Jews (back into Hebrew), or,
if tongues was for a minority language group visiting, then it was for the majority remaining so that all could understand. Either way there would be two language groups present in the congregation.
1Cor.14:21 tells us plainly that it was a sign to the Jews.
We know that Paul habitually went to the synagogues on his missionary journeys into other nations.