I should delete this post as it is not on topic. I have already given you one warning (and perhaps more).
How do you compare a church of a few dozen members to an unscriptural corrupt organization of over one billion members. There is no comparison, so your question is moot. It has nothing to do with the OP.
Catholic Taliban?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by DHK, Sep 30, 2010.
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What is your Scriptural basis for saying that?
And actually it is the local bishop that threatened to excommunicate this guy. -
The very definition of Roman Catholic Church does not fit the definition of the word "church" or ekklesia in the Bible, which simply means "assembly."
It is not an assembly.
It is not Christian nor has ever been.
It is a false world religion whose doctrines send people to hell. -
It is not possible then to discuss the topic with you because you do not believe the Catholic church to be a church - and because of your belief you would deny them the Scriptural authority of excommunication.
And that is why you accuse me of being off topic. -
Or is the Taliban way of threats and intimidation the only "Christian" way they know?
Comparing the political situation in the Philippines to me and my church is off topic.
Comparing it to the Bible is what you should be doing. I am not your sole authority in all matters of faith and doctrine; the Bible ought to be. Is it? -
And I already asked you for your scriptual citation that prevents a church from excommunicating a member simply because he is a politician.
As to homework - it seems to me that the responsibility to check whether the Catholic church is doing this in the correct way would be on the accuser - the one who is making the Taliban charge.
I have only read your articles - and the fact is that he has not been excommunicated - there have been communications between his church and him - and he is persisting in the behavior.
That sounds to be a proper process.
What more are you looking for?
Just because your do not believe contraception to be a sin does not change the fact that the Catholic church does. If this guy wants to make contraception a government supported activity - perhaps he could take your advice and look for another church.
After all he does have the soul liberty to do so does he not.
Soul liberty does not mean that one can believe whatever one chooses and then expect the church that you are currently a member of to simply accept it if it is something the is contrary to that churches beliefs. -
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Excommunicated for what? Here is an example:
1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
--The crime was incest. Adultery. It was not a simple difference of opinion in the use of contraceptives. It was far more serious. It held the consequence of bringing shame to the name of Christ and to that particular local church. The action to be taken was to put one out of the church until he had repented of his sin. Eventually he did repent and came back into the fold.
Your question makes no sense. The wrong is on the RCC who act with Taliban methodology in threats and intimidation in order to try to stop him from passing this bill. Is that the Christian way of doing things?
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
DHK you are basing your view that the Catholic Church has committed a crime for threatening to excommunicated the president because he doesn't uphold and goes against the teachings of the church. Question. How is that a crime? Any Church has a right to excommunicate any member for not adhering to their teachings. The catholic church has the right to excommunicate Nancy Pelosi for supporting abortion and the same for John Kerry and Niether would say the Church did something illegal. they may disagree but a church has a right to make a stance on its beliefs. Nothing illegal about it.
Our country strong arms people all the time. For instance people are tired of both parties in the US increasing Taxes and Government spending so what do they do? Threaten to withdraw support and establish a grass roots group called the Tea Party to 1) protest government policy and 2) encourage like minded polititians to stand up for their held beliefs. There is nothing illegal about that either. So what If the president is excommunicated. If he has integrity he will stand up for what he believes. Its not like the catholic church held a revolution. Even if they excommunicate him, he will still be president and still able to make executive decisions. -
Second they aren't minor issues.
Third those are political issues which have consequences on the entire nation.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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DHK, here is my best guess to what you are asking.
The Catholic church considers contraception to be sin.
The Catholics are not threatening him with excommunication because he is sinning by using contraception. He could be using it - but who knows?
They are threatening him with excommunication because he is promoting sin.
He is promoting sin very publicly.
As to why are not all Catholics that use contraception excommunicated - it very well could be because it is a private sin that is carried on in ones home and not done in public. How could anyone know which individual Catholic is or is not using contraception?
If it is not possible to know who or who is not using contraception how is the Catholic church supposed to know who to excommunicate?
As to your "good of the country" arguement.
Some politicians argue for legalized gambling as a means of raising money "for the good of the country".
Some argue for legalization "for the good of the country".
Would you accept the promotion of these sins because they would be "for the good of the country".
I doubt it. -
If it had anything to do with sin, why don't they take care of the pedophiles in their own leadership? What is worse? Using a contraceptive or attacking and raping children? You say that the use of a contraceptive is worthy of excommunication but not the rapist of a child. Horrible!
Whatever you believe on this subject the matter is a private one. It should not be dictated. The President's policy as to running the nation cannot be dictated by the RCC. That is wrong. The RCC is interfering in the politics of the nation. There must be a separation of church and state. The only separation here is that of intimidation and the action of Taliban-like methods.
The logic is this. You cannot always catch the thief from stealing. But there are ways of limiting what he can steal. You can take affirmative action and limit the consequences of the wrongs of the criminal.
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DHK, I am dropping this discussion.
It is obvious that there is not point in continuing it with you. -
The government support the two contraceptive methods either artificial or natural. It's up for the people to choose. It's also unfair to call catholic leaders in RP "taliban" which term refers to terrorist. It's also like calling vatican also a "taliban". Catholicism in RP is deeply connected to vatican. To free up catholism influence in the country is to spread the true gospel of Christ which i believe only a mask in catholism not a true face. I been a catholic here in RP for several years until i got saved 7 years ago and understand the true meaning of salvation.
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I appreciate hearing your testimony how the Lord brought you ought of Catholicism into a true understanding of the gospel of Christ. It is so true that the Catholic Church masks salvation by putting on a false face.
The author in the OP did not use the word "taliban" to refer to any terrorist activity but only the bishops method of intimidation of getting what they wanted.
However, I agree with your statement: "it is up to the people to choose."
Good post. :thumbs: -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
"Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense. " - Carl Sagan
Beautiful example of his own wisdom,
I have been wondering for many years what Carl Sagan's contribution to REAL science has been?
Or am I just ignorant?
Who could tell me in language an ignorant man may understand? -
His contribution?
Gerhard...
This phrase...
BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS...AND BILLIONS...AND BILLIONS...AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS, AND...ON AND ON IT GOES
Other than that, probably very little, except decieving probably MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people into believing his nonsense. -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
O, I see, very clever!
I also thought if he would have come so far if he had to have to invent wheels....
In South Africa we used to have a minister of foreign afairs, Pik Botha; he and Sagan were friends you know. He and Sagan a year or so ago together organised some institution or thing for the discovery of South African intellect, pray. That was the last I have heard of any of the three; no, of the four. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Carl Sagan deserves a lot more than people here give him credit for. According to wiki he helped with the discovery of surface temperatures of Venus, theorized that Titan would have liquid oceans of some sort, and showed that amino acid formation from basic chemicals due to the introduction of radiation. He advocated for science. His Show Cosmos educated and informed many young people to the recent finds and discoveries of science and speculated future things. It initiated many children into the world of science and discovery.
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