What say you people?
Jhn 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Jhn 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Pilate, having the power to protect Jesus, allowed Jesus to be murdered.
Now Pilate did not cause the people to kill Jesus, he only allowed it.
Was Pilate innocent of the murder?
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Cause verses Allows
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Oct 18, 2009.
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May I ask, who planned the crucifixion of Jesus?
The Jews?
Pilate?
Satan?
God?
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Isa 53:10¶Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
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Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. -
If we plan a murder we are guilty of sin are we not?
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In the case of Jesus, God planned a sacrifice for sin, which meant that the shedding of blood must occur or there is no remission. He used the sinfulness of man to accomplish this.
Another thought.....in all the OT accounts of God's "killing" of people, it was always a judgment against them. It was not out of a sinful desire to kill. The death of Christ was also a judgment against sin. In all of these cases, I think God carried out justice and fulfilled His word "the wages of sin is death". -
There's a huge difference between "planning" and "allowing". God allows sin as a part and parcel of us having free will. When a grievous sin is committed, however, God always has the last word. We should not confuse God having the last word with God condining the sin which led up to it.
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Someplace in the Bible God says, "I cause good and I cause evil." Something to that effect. Can never remember the citation.
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Did He have to use murder by sinful men?
The Father could have taken a tree, pulled it up by the roots and slain Jesus Himself, maybe in the town square. Wouldn't the sacrifice still have been made?
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He is not the only one to say this.
Also, the word is "calamity" or "disaster" in most modern versions.
God does not create evil; God is good and abhors evil. Evil is not a thing anyway; it is a result of sin or it is sin acting out. -
Do you then believe diasters and clamities are a "good" thing? What is the opposite of "good"? "Bad" maybe? Then God creates the bad even though He is good.
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But Steaver, when God does these things, they are not evil!!!!! God does not murder; when people die as a result of what God is doing, or what He does through others (as what happened to many in the OT), it was execution of His judgment. That is not murder.
To say a God who abhors evil actually creates it is contradictory, and I consider it a horrific view. It reminds me of dualism - good and evil are part of each other.
"God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all." This is in 1 John somewhere. -
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