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Colossians 2, the "nailed it to his cross", what was "it"?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, Jul 3, 2017.

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  1. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    What about it? The only 'authority' in it would be sister Ellen G. White, and the Great Controversy, a great and powerful work [you should read it in full], is not the "Testimonies", yet, I agree with the GC statements, based upon the KJB.

    See Isaiah 8:20 KJB.

    The other quotations aren't any kind of authority, and basically useless to post them. Am I disagreeing with their statements, "No.", Am I agreeing with their statements, "No." They are not the foundation, whether they are correct or incorrect. The Bible [KJB] is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. If you need, I could quote sister White on that also.

    The website they are quoted from[Jesus is Saviour, saves from what I would ask them, see 1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:1-17; John 14:15; Exodus 20:6, etc], has got serious issues, though some good material [I like the one on music in particular], but that is for another thread, not his thread. I will not further respond to any directing to that post, since it basically has nothing to do with the point of the OP. Bring it up in another thread, and it may be, as time allows, gone over more specifically, but it seems many are loathe to follow instruction here, but it would go with their already rejecting God's explicit instruction [Exodus 20:8-11 KJB].
     
  2. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You would agree with Ellen White viewpoints though, and hers make for another and false Gospel! And all of those other quotes were from what the Sda would consider as being informed and authoritative!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  5. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    I want to thank you for your time and effort. I will await for a response from those who are desirous to consider a scriptural [KJB] demonstration, and the evidences already provided. This will be my last response to you in this thread, unless you are willing to consider those evidences, as cited, or to provide more detailed evidences contrary to what has been provided.

    Presently, I am only receiving assertions, not evidences, in context, or receiving private translations [they are corporately owned, thus "private", and require copyright captions, etc], un-demonstrable from the Koine Greek, or more importantly, from the scriptural [KJB] definition.

    This is not for lack of willingness to dialogue with you brother Yeshua1, but for reasons cited already.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I refer you to my post #7:

    The 'handwriting of ordinances' (or 'requirements' NKJV) that was against us' refers to the 10 Commandments, written by God Himself (Deuteronomy 5:22). They are against us because we can't keep them, but Christ has nailed them to the cross with tetelestai stamped across them. What does tetelestai mean? It was our Lord's cry from the cross, 'It is finished!' It is the perfect tense of the Greek word teleo, which can mean to finish, to accomplish or to pay (cf. Matthew 17:24). So the commandments are nailed to the cross with the words 'It is paid' written on them. Our sins are forgiven.

    This does not mean that we are not to keep the commandments of God; of course we are! But the commandments are no longer our righteousness but our rule as we serve our beloved Saviour who has 'forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the certificate of debt [NKJV margin] that was against us.'


    There is only one thing that was actually handwritten by God Himself, and that was the Decalogue. Please read Deut. 5:22. The rest of the law was transmitted to Moses by angels (cf. Acts 7:53; Galatians 3:19; Hebrews 2:2). It was the Decalogue that was against us, that by means of its requirements testified against us, because we can't keep it. Did you actually read Matthew 17:24 and check it out against the Greek to see that teleo can actually means to pay? Our sins are gone; they have been paid for in full by Christ. The law is no longer against us, but for us; and, indeed, written on our hearts (Hebrews 8:10 etc.). It is our guide through life (Psalm 119:9-10 etc.), and though we still don't keep it as we should (Psalm 119:5-6), we now love God's commandments (v.97), love to obey them (vs. 111-112) and are forgiven when we fall short (1 John 2:1).
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Why do you not respond to post 71 then?
     
  8. One Baptism

    One Baptism Active Member

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    As stated before brother Martin, your response did not directly address my posts [even as this repetition, still does not], and the voluminous evidences, given in context, therein, but simply ignores them, and presents your own assertion using a private translation such as the NKJV, even its private interpretation 'footnote'.

    Deuteronomy 5:22 does not say "handwriting", nor does it say that the Ten Commandments are the "ordinances" [see Numbers 9:12; 2 Chronicles 33:8; Ezekiel 43:18; Luke 1:6 [commandments are separated from ordinances] KJB, etc] thereof, which was demonstrated to you from the posts you are presently not addressing [Colossians 2 compared with Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9, etc]. What Deuteronomy 5:22 KJB, does say is that God, wrote the Ten Commandments, but further passages reveal with what God wrote those Ten Commandments, namely "His finger", or "His Spirit", since the Ten Commandments are from "Heaven", and "spiritual", even "eternal":

    Exodus 31:18 KJB - And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

    Deuteronomy 9:10 KJB - And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them [was written] according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

    Luke 11:20 KJB - But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

    Matthew 12:28 KJB - But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.​

    ... The remainder deals with another subject altogether which was already dealt with in other posts, not addressed, namely that which demonstrates that which was finished, the foundation, the perfect character worked out by Christ Jesus, yet this thread is dealing specifically with the context and language of "handwriting of ordinances" as given in Colossians 2 KJB.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm let me guess. That is the post where you come nowhere near Daniel 7 and Romans 2.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is the Judgement seat of Christ for us now, NOTHING to do with keeping or losing salvation though! Where is that false judgemt SDA holds with found then?
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    First of all, let me be quite clear. I have no objection to your use of the KJV, but I do not believe it to be as reliable, and certainly not as clear, as the NKJV. I therefore have no intention of using the KJV myself simply to conform to your prejudices. I hope that causes no offence, but that's the way it is.

    With reference to your insistence on the word 'ordinances,' the Greek word in question is dogma. In the KJV, it is translated twice as 'ordinances' and three times as 'decree' (Luke 2:1; Acts 16:4; 17:7). There are also four other Greek words translated 'ordinance' or 'ordinances' in the NT-- diatage (Romans 13:2); dikaioma (Luke 1:6; Hebrews 9:1, 10); ktisis (1 Peter 2:13), and paradosis (1 Corinthians 11:2). So to insist upon using the word 'ordinances' in Colossians 2:14 is not really consistent, especially as the word is now largely obsolete in English use. 'Requirements' is probably better.

    The usual NT Greek word for 'commandment' is entole. This is the word used for the Decalogue (eg. Luke 18:20), though it is also used for other moral commands of God (eg. Mark 12:28). So when we read in Ephesians 2:15, '........having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments [Gk. entole] contained in ordinances [Gk. dogma], so as to create in Himself one new man from the two [Jew and Gentile] thus making peace.' The law then is specifically one of commandments contained in the ordinances or requirements of God. I'm aware that some commentators take this to mean the ceremonial law rather than the moral law, but I'm pretty sure it means the latter.

    I will have a look at your O.T. verses as I have time, but I note that you promised to reply to some of my posts and have not yet done so.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Lord Jesus, in His own body on the Cross, paid in full all obligation to the Father for all of our sins, and he kept the Moral code of the Law in perfect fashion, so both our needs to pay for sins and to be perfect upholders were done finished/accomplished by Christ!
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be stuck "quoting you".

    Try the Bible "instead" ... Let's begin.

    2 Cor 5:10 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

    Rom 2
    4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

    12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel

    Daniel 7 -
    “I watched till thrones were put in place,
    And the Ancient of Days was seated;
    His garment was white as snow,
    And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
    His throne was a fiery flame,
    Its wheels a burning fire;
    10 A fiery stream issued
    And came forth from before Him.
    A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
    Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
    The court was seated,
    And the books were opened.

    11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
    13 “I was watching in the night visions,
    And behold, One like the Son of Man,
    Coming with the clouds of heaven!
    He came to the Ancient of Days,

    And they brought Him near before Him.
    14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
    That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    Which shall not pass away,
    And His kingdom the one
    Which shall not be destroyed.

    Daniel’s Visions Interpreted
    21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
    22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

    23 “Thus he said:
    ‘The fourth beast shall be
    A fourth kingdom on earth,
    Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
    And shall devour the whole earth,
    Trample it and break it in pieces.
    24 The ten horns are ten kings
    Who shall arise from this kingdom.
    And another shall rise after them;
    He shall be different from the first ones,
    And shall subdue three kings.
    25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
    Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
    And shall intend to change times and law.
    Then the saints shall be given into his hand
    For a time and times and half a time.

    26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
    And they shall take away his dominion,
    To consume and destroy it forever.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    And yet - still a sin for us to "take God's name in vain".

    and yet -- Paul writes this to the church -- by way of reprimand

    1 Cor 6
    7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

    And John writes -
    1 John 3 - 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It might be helpful for you to finish the sentence. '.....And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.'
    Yet the same book has already declared, 'If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness' (1 John 1:8-9).
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Brother Martin, why are these brethren trying to put us in bondage again?... Jesus has made us FREE!... Brother Glen:)

    John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

    8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

    8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

    8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
     
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Amen, brother!
     
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  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    First of all you are in error in supposing that Hebrew words will have identical meanings to Greek words if they are translated the same way in the KJV. Not so.
    Next, let's take the three OT texts you quote: In Numbers 9:12 and Exekiel 43:18, the word translated 'ordinances' is chuqqah. The KJV translates it as 'ordinance 22 times and as 'statute' 77 times. The word in 2 Chronicles 33:8 is Mishpat. This is translated in over 30 different ways in the KJV, the most popular being 'cause' (12 times), 'judgement (294 times), 'manner' (39 times) and 'ordinance 11 times). So when we come to Deuteronomy 5:1, 'Hear O Israel, the statutes [Heb. chuq, the masculine form of haqqah] and judgements [Heb. Mishpat], these are describing the Decalogue which Moses is about to read out. Likewise in Deuteronomy 6:1, the words for 'statutes' and judgements' are chuqqah and mishpat. So any attempt to claim that 'ordinance' always means something other than the Decalogue is wrong.
    Deut. 5:22 does not describe the Decalogue as 'commandments but as 'words.' Just saying.

    N.B. I am not setting myself up as an expert on Hebrew. I am open to correction by anyone who is one. :)

    More later.
     
    #98 Martin Marprelate, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  19. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Sorry these other brethren haven't found any rest... I know you and I have... Brother Glen:)

    Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

    11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NONE who appear at the Bheama seat will lose salvation, and NONE at the GWT get saved!
     
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