death penalty?

[Brother Bob]

Dan 5:21 And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.

Was Nebuchadnezzar saved? God appointed him ruler.

Why don't you just answer the question was Bill Clinton and Saddam ordained of God?

 

[Jim1999]

If I thought the Bible taught capital punishment, I would reject the Bible.

There have been far too many errors in the field of executions, for me to even imagine that it has divine approval.

Just to-day they started hearings on a man who was hanged in Quebec in the fifties. All reports say he was innocent.

A young lad was sentenced to death by hanging, again in Canada. The trial was faulty, witnesses were wrong, but he was sentence,,Thankfully his sentence was changed by the Prime Minister.

A youth of 18 was hanged in England in early fifties. He was found innocent about two or three years ago. The Prime Minister sent a letter of apology to his family.

Thirteen men were on death row for years in Illinois. Thankfully a student took up their case and proved each one of them innocent...they would have been executed.

I will never support the death penalty...The only bench God will be on is in the final judgement. I will accept that as divine.

On this recent school case. The man was ill.

O ye hypocrites! You will condemn a poor woman for having an abortion and yet long to see a man die at the courts wish. Killing is not ok, but killing is ok....when I decide.

God help us!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen Jim 1999;

 

[Marcia]

Posted by Ralph III
As stated earlier, I had come to be on the fence in last few years with this issue. However, again I feel strong scripture has been given supporting it or at least not condeming such justice.

Yes, I have been highly impressed with the Amish. Their forgiveness is truly as Christ teaches us. I think I would have apprehensions in sentencing someone to death. However, if the crime was as hideous as the Children being murdered with overwhelming evidence; I think I could agree with peers on that ultimate sentence.

I think forgiveness is separate from the consequence of a crime. Forgiveness doesn't mean someone is let off the hook for what they did.

 

[jne1611]

Why don't you just answer the question was Bill Clinton and Saddam ordained of God?

Sure. Do you think God was dethroned when they were in power? How about when Pharaoh ruled over God's people?

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Why don't you just answer the question was Bill Clinton and Saddam ordained of God?
Sure. Do you think God was dethroned when they were in power? How about when Pharaoh ruled over God's people?

No need for me and you to continue on this discussion jne; for we sure do differ. I believe God and His power is the only power and He will do the reaping. Never would I agree that Saddam was ordained of God or Hitler.

 

[jne1611]

If I thought the Bible taught capital punishment, I would reject the Bible.

There have been far too many errors in the field of executions, for me to even imagine that it has divine approval.

Just to-day they started hearings on a man who was hanged in Quebec in the fifties. All reports say he was innocent.

A young lad was sentenced to death by hanging, again in Canada. The trial was faulty, witnesses were wrong, but he was sentence,,Thankfully his sentence was changed by the Prime Minister.

A youth of 18 was hanged in England in early fifties. He was found innocent about two or three years ago. The Prime Minister sent a letter of apology to his family.

Thirteen men were on death row for years in Illinois. Thankfully a student took up their case and proved each one of them innocent...they would have been executed.

I will never support the death penalty...The only bench God will be on is in the final judgement. I will accept that as divine.

On this recent school case. The man was ill.

O ye hypocrites! You will condemn a poor woman for having an abortion and yet long to see a man die at the courts wish. Killing is not ok, but killing is ok....when I decide.

God help us!

Cheers,

Jim

My, My. Pretty blatant to say a thing like that! Reject the Bible over the death penalty! I guess you really have a problem with the Old Testament & You sure will give the Bible up when you come across the lake of fire!

 

[jne1611]

Amen Jim 1999;

I can't believe you gave an amen to that. No wander you advocate freewill. You could not accept the truth without giving up the Bible!

 

[Brother Bob]

My, My. Pretty blatant to say a thing like that! Reject the Bible over the death penalty! I guess you really have a problem with the Old Testament & You sure will give the Bible up when you come across the lake of fire!

I agree with Jim and I have learned a lot since being on BB. I never knew the majority of Christians were for the death penalty.

Could you do the killing?

You could not accept the truth without giving up the Bible!

I resent that jne;

 

[jne1611]

I agree with Jim and I have learned a lot since being on BB. I never knew the majority of Christians were for the death penalty.

Could you do the killing?

Knowing what Scripture says, yes (if I were a civil authority) But God never put me in that position, but if so, yes. And let me put it this way. To give your approval to a statement that says. If the Bible is for the death penalty, then you reject the Bible. How could you make such a statement? That is what I was referring to. Just threw the freewill in there to make an argument.

 

[Jim1999]

Address the New Testament, where a prostitute is about to be stoned, according to the law. Jesus steps in. He says, he who is without sin cast the first stone.....Jesus then tells this whore to rise, go, and sin no more.

Capital punishment was in effect under the law.

Please answer the injustices done by so-called law-keepers? Who will raise up those who have been unjustly executed?

What of the woman in Texas, who came to a saving knowledge of Jesus and proved it by her life, yet, even though Jesus would say, rise, go and sin no more, but the state of Texas executed her.

Sorry, I don't find any verse that supports capital punishment. It does state that it is a political matter in the hands of the state, but that is not advocating it.

When is murder not murder?

If I found it taught in scripture, I would throw out the scripture because it violates ALL that the Christ of the Bible taught, and this would make the Bible a fallacy and a faud.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

If I thought the Bible taught capital punishment, I would reject the Bible.

There have been far too many errors in the field of executions, for me to even imagine that it has divine approval.

Just to-day they started hearings on a man who was hanged in Quebec in the fifties. All reports say he was innocent.

A young lad was sentenced to death by hanging, again in Canada. The trial was faulty, witnesses were wrong, but he was sentence,,Thankfully his sentence was changed by the Prime Minister.

A youth of 18 was hanged in England in early fifties. He was found innocent about two or three years ago. The Prime Minister sent a letter of apology to his family.

Thirteen men were on death row for years in Illinois. Thankfully a student took up their case and proved each one of them innocent...they would have been executed.

But the misuse of something does not mean it's invalid. I agree that, at least in the US, poorer people usually do not have as good representation as those with money. This is one reason I am not sure I support the death penalty the way it is practiced here.

However, the other issue is: Does the Bible support capital punishment? And this is what I've been responding to on this thread.

O ye hypocrites! You will condemn a poor woman for having an abortion and yet long to see a man die at the courts wish. Killing is not ok, but killing is ok....when I decide.

God help us!

The above are ad hominem and straw man fallacies. I don't condemn a woman for having an abortion, Jim. And I don't long to see anyone die at the courts wish.

 

[Brother Bob]

If the Bible is for the death penalty, then you reject the Bible. How could you make such a statement

He said "IF" that makes a big difference. I will not throw out the Bible because some men misread it.

I believe if you once did have to carry out the killing of another person and watch them die you might wish you hadn't of done it.

It shows how naive I am though for I thought almost all Christians were agains the death penalty.

 

[jne1611]

He said "IF" that makes a big difference. I will not throw out the Bible because some men misread it.

I believe if you once did have to carry out the killing of another person and watch them die you might wish you hadn't of done it.

It shows how naive I am though for I thought almost all Christians were agains the death penalty.

You may be right about that. I don't know. I mean, tonight if a man broke into my house & I had to kill him, I would, to protect my family. There is no doubt I would fill bad about him dying, but I would still kill him if I had to.
But as far as government is concerned, I don't know.

 

[Brother Bob]

You may be right about that. I don't know. I mean, tonight if a man broke into my house & I had to kill him, I would, to protect my family.

That is much different than what we have been talking about.
A man that won't provide for his own is worse than an ifidel and hath already denied the faith.

That means protecting them also.

I would also protect my family and think God means for us to do that.

 

[Allan]

So you would kill someone, as a consequince of their actions to potentially bring harm to you or your family (without evidence to prove such other than their presense). However you do not advocate the civil authorities to have that same right.


Uh, with regard to the issue of abortion and capital punishment being the same, shows how little you understand the bible on these issues.

Abortion - Killing without justifiable cause.
Biblically this is murder.

Capital Punishment - For the majority - Killing due to justifiable cause.
Biblically this is mandated with proper evidence and or witnesses.

Thou shalt not Kill - is actually thou shalt not MURDER - Kill without justifiable cause. otherwise what God COMMANDED the Israelites to due was in direct conflict with what He COMMANDED them not to do! GOD is now stupid or a liar - BULL on both counts!

Question:
Was God so inept in the OT to place capital punishment in the hands of the judicail authorities that He CREATED, and then a few thousand years later realize what a moronic thing that was to do - so He decided to recend His orginal decree!?

 

[ituttut]

Address the New Testament, where a prostitute is about to be stoned, according to the law. Jesus steps in. He says, he who is without sin cast the first stone.....Jesus then tells this whore to rise, go, and sin no more.

Capital punishment was in effect under the law.

Please answer the injustices done by so-called law-keepers? Who will raise up those who have been unjustly executed?

What of the woman in Texas, who came to a saving knowledge of Jesus and proved it by her life, yet, even though Jesus would say, rise, go and sin no more, but the state of Texas executed her.

Sorry, I don't find any verse that supports capital punishment. It does state that it is a political matter in the hands of the state, but that is not advocating it.

When is murder not murder?

If I found it taught in scripture, I would throw out the scripture because it violates ALL that the Christ of the Bible taught, and this would make the Bible a fallacy and a faud.

It is difficult to equate an adulteress with a murderer.

You have evidently thrown out Genesis 9:6, "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." You will not find scripture that says you can now discard these words of God. If you find these words are offensive to you, can you believe Genesis 9:7?

Can you find scripture to also remove verse 7, "And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein"? Can you find where God says, "OK, you can stop this nonsense now"?

If verse 6 is of no importance to you, is verse 7? Do you say that was then, and this is now. We have progressed beyond those old sayings of God. I must believe these "old sayings of God", for if I discard them as "fluff", I then will have to discard something else He says in the same setting, and He has never changed His mind on that subject. Verses 15, 16, and 17, "And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. 17. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth."

 

[Brother Bob]

So you would kill someone, as a consequince of their actions to potentially bring harm to you or your family (without evidence to prove such other than their presense). However you do not advocate the civil authorities to have that same right.

What a ridiculous statement. We have been discussing Capitol punishment which in no way has anything whatsoever to do with protecting your family from someone trying to do them harm. It does not even have anything to do with civil authorities having to kill someone in the line of duty. The act of Capitol punishment is supposed to "deter" and has nothing to do with the Bible as you use it but is to try and protect by "detering" but it just does not work and statistics prove it out . Plus, we are killing a lot of innonence people and as someone stated if you are poor and black you can kiss it all goodbye for you are a gonner, Is that justice? If we were all O J Simpson then we would be alright I guess, so we justify killing the poor by the Scriptures but if they got enough money we will let them go. A strawman if I ever saw one.

Capital Punishment - For the majority - Killing due to justifiable cause.
Biblically this is mandated with proper evidence and or witnesses.

Who pays for the mistakes? It does become murder for sure then. No mistake if someone breaks in my home to do my family harm. I am not Armish but sure do respect their humility.

 

[tinytim]

Coming back to the Amish, and the question of could I Kill someone;

If I would have been there when that beast took the school, I wouldn't have thought about it for a second... I would have blown him away.

And BTW, Abortion is killing the innocent.
Capital Punishment is killing the guilty.

That is the difference.

 

[Brother Bob]

And BTW, Abortion is killing the innocent.
Capital Punishment is killing the guilty.

That is the difference.

One problem Tim;
the guilty is not always the guilty and has happened way too much.

Better to lock them away somewhere in my opinion but whether it is right or wrong I look at it if I could be the one who pulls the lever and I don't believe I could. Protecting the family is entirely different than Capitol punishment.