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Featured Do we have free will to choose to believe and follow God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 3, 2019.

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  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Do we have free will to choose to believe and follow God?

    Hi all some interesting scriptures shared from a good brother.

    SOME INTERESTING SCRIPTURES ON FREE WILL

    PHILEMON 1:14 (different translations)

    (ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, BUT ONE OF FREE WILL.

    (ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, BUT BY THE FREE WILL

    (GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me OUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL WITHOUT FEELING FORCED TO DO IT

    (csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL

    (LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FREE WILL

    (MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND NOT OF COMPULSION.

    (NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion BUT OF FREE WILL. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.

    (NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (NASB95)14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (TEV)14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

    (ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    and you can add both the NEB and the REB

    CT 14but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    NENT 14but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, BUT ACCORDING TO FREE WILL..

    (NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    ............

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
    Free will is a will not under compulsion
    Free will is consensual
    Free will is a will not forced

    ............

    From alternate translations

    Philemon 1:14 (ESV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.

    Philemon 1:14 (KJV) 14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

    Philemon 1:14 (NET1) 14 However,[33] without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness.

    Philemon 1:14 (NIV2011) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.

    Philemon 1:14 (NJB) 14 However, I did not want to do anything without your consent; it would have been forcing your act of kindness, which should be spontaneous.

    Philemon 1:14 (NRSV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced.

    Philemon 1:14 (BBE) 14 But without your approval I would do nothing; so that your good works might not be forced, but done freely from your heart.

    Philemon 1:14 (MontgomeryNT) 14 But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.

    Philemon 1:14 (CEB) 14 However, I didn't want to do anything without your consent so that your act of kindness would occur willingly and not under pressure.

    Philemon 1:14 (CEV) 14 But I won't do anything unless you agree to it first. I want your act of kindness to come from your heart, and not be something you feel forced to do.

    ............

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will is without necessity
    Free will is without compulsion
    Free will is without force
    Free will is a will not pressured
    Free will is from one own heart
    Free will is a voluntary
    Free will is of your own accord
    Free will is without constraint

    And one last verse not Phm 1:14

    1 Corinthians 7:37 (KJV) 37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

    Free will has no necessity and is under ones own power


    Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    JOSHUA 24:14-15 [14], Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. [15], And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    Not looking so good for those who believe in robots.

    .............

    QUESTIONS:

    1. How do you see free will?

    God bless.
     
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ONLY God has absolute Free Will....
     
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  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    We are made in God's image to be like God *GENESIS 1:26
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NOT to be God though!
     
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  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Of course we are not God but all those who believe and follow God's Word are His Children *1 JOHN 3:3-10. Mankind was made and created in His image *GENESIS 1:26. Being created in God's image we have free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not to believe and follow what God says. There are both rewards and consequences for what we choose to do.

    God bless
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Y you answered a question he didn't ask.
     
  7. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20, Psalms 10:4, Psalms 53:1-4.
    Men are not robots.

    "Free will", a will that is completely free to choose whatever it wants, is an illusion created by the carnal mind.
    Scripture tells us that man's will is already biased against God ( Psalms 58:3 ) and in favor of sin and loving it.
    So, our will is not free, but enslaved to our love of sin and hatred of God ( Romans 1:30, among many others ).

    Aleister Crowley was wrong.
     
    #7 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
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  8. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    The will to love God is definitely from the heart ( Romans 10:8-10 )
    Sounds to me like the limits above were set by someone other than God.
    Perhaps corrupt men are defining what "free will" should be like?

    I don't see "free will" anywhere in the Bible.
    But, I definitely see God appealing to man's will, no matter what state it is in...

    In believers, who are set free from sin, God commands and appeals.
    They willingly follow Him and His ways out of a changed heart.

    In unbelievers, who are slaves to sin, God commands and appeals...and they reject Him time after time.
    They willingly follow their wants and desires out of a darkened heart (Romans 1:21 ), which are exactly the opposite of what God wants and desires them to do.


    To repent and obey Him.
     
    #8 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Hello Dave, you may want to check your scripture references. NOT A SINGLE SCRIPTURE you have provided here says that mankind does not have a free will. Then we have God's Word that says...

    PHILEMON 1:14 14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

    1 CORINTHIANS 7:37 [37] Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, BUT HAS POWER OVER HIS OWN WILL, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

    Free will has no necessity and is under ones own power

    DEUTERONOMY 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE THAT BOTH YOU AND YOUR SEED MAY LIVE

    JOSHUA 24:14-15 [14], Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. [15], And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHO YOU WILL SERVE; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE WE WILL SERVE THE LORD.

    Seems God's Word disagrees with you..

    Of ourselves we can do nothing but sin. The good news of the Gospel of JESUS Christ is that we have a Saviour from sin that through his Spirit gives us the power over sin if we choose to BELIEVE and FOLLOW His Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it and you have provided none to show that we are not free to choose to believe God's Word and follow it.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
     
  10. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    As you may wish to check the context of yours, sir.;)
     
  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Not at all. Everything listed in the OP are taken directly from the scriptures. They are God's Word not mine.

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
    Free will is a will not under compulsion
    Free will is consensual
    Free will is a will not forced

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will is without necessity
    Free will is without compulsion
    Free will is without force
    Free will is a will not pressured
    Free will is from one own heart
    Free will is a voluntary
    Free will is of your own accord
    Free will is without constraint

    Hope this helps
     
  12. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    #12 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
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  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I have what scripture have you provided that says manking do not have free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word? That's right, none.
     
  14. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    That it was all taken from the Scriptures, I can clearly see.
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Please how does anything you have written here disagree with anything provided in the OP? Yep it doesn't. It is God's Word not mine that says mankind has a free will to believe and follow God's Word or not to believe and follow God's Word. Choose you this day who you will serve...
     
  16. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    With respect, it doesn't.

    But what you've listed as apparently being the necessities of free will, are what I see as "nice sentiments"...
    Right out of what we, as corrupt men, think free will should be.

    But how does God Himself describe the heart of man?

    Romans 1:18-32.
    Romans 3:10-18.
    John 3:19-20.
    Psalms 58:3.
    Jeremiah 13:23.
    Jeremiah 17:9.

    Many more.
     
    #16 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
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  17. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Joshua 24:1-25.

    Read who is being spoken to here.
    To me, you're assuming, in direct contradiction to Romans 3:10-18, that man's will is actually unbiased.
     
    #17 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
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  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Then what is your disagreement and why did you say earlier that these limits were set by corrupted men when quoting from a list of free will context taken from the scriptures?
     
  19. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Because what you've listed sounds exactly like what unbelievers say that free will is.
    Aleister Crowley had quite a bit to say about what he thought free will was defined as, and what its limits were.

    But the Bible says that man's will is in bondage to his darkened heart, and that we hate Jesus Christ by default.
     
    #19 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Nope. Everything provided here in the OP is taken directly from God's Word. They are God's Word not my words and we should believe and follow them.
     
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