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Featured Do we have free will to choose to believe and follow God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 3rdAngel, Sep 3, 2019.

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  1. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I do believe God's words.
    I just don't see them in the bits and out-of-context chunks that you seem to.;)

    By the way, do you believe in everlasting torment?


    Mark 9:43-48.
    Matthew 25:46.
    2 Thessalonians 1:9.
    Revelation 14:9-11.


    Do you believe that all who end up in the Lake of Fire are punished with everlasting torment and destruction?


    Salvation is from something...so, while it seems that you're arguing in favor of mankind actually being both willing and able to cooperate with God in the matter of salvation, what exactly do you believe that we are saved from?
     
    #21 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  2. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    What happened, @3rdAngel ?

    Your replies were very fast until I asked you that question.:Sneaky
     
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  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    JOSHUA 24:14-15 is spoken to God's people. There is no contradiction to ROMANS 3:10-18 whatsoever.

    Ok let's examine your claims here in detail and see if there is any truth in what you are saying here.

    JOSHUA 24:14-15 [14], Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. [15], And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    Your trying to argue that JOSHUA 24:14-15 is not talking about free will because of ROMANS 3:10-18 which says...

    ROMANS 3:10-18
    [10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    [11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
    [12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
    [13], Their throat is an open sepulcher; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
    [14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
    [15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
    [16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
    [17], And the way of peace have they not known:
    [18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.

    ..........

    You may want to re-check your references Dave, they say nothing against free will and choosing to believe and follow God's Word.

    Hope this helps...
     
  4. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    You have not provided a single scripture here that has anything to do with man having or not having free will. You have not provided a single scripture to show that mankind does not have a free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word. It God's Word that is the power of creation to all those who believe.
     
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    The bible does say mankind has a darkened heart but No if mankind did not have free will they could not choose to believe and follow God's Word and the Gospel would not be GOOD NEWS to all mankind. It is God the gives the power through faith. For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the POWER of God to everyone who believes *ROMANS 1:16; JOHN 3:15-21.
     
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Please prove your claims there has nothing been taken out of context in this OP. Please address the OP and prove your claims. If you cannot prove what you are claiming why do you not believe God's Word?
    Salvation is from sin not to continue in it *JOHN 8:31-36 because the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. It is those who continue in sin that receive their reward of everlasting punishment because they did not choose to believe and follow Gods Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it RO.
     
  7. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    Let's not.

    I asked you a question as to your other beliefs.
    Since you seem reluctant to be honest and up-front about Hell and those Scriptures, why should I engage you on anything else?;)

    At this point, I happen to think that you're a Seventh Day Adventist.
    Am I wrong?
     
    #27 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
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  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Sorry I have real life things to do as well. What does it matter if my replies are fast or slow? It was never because of anything you have said here as you have not provided anything from God's Word to show that mankind does not have free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word and it is God's Word not mine as shown in the OP that we have free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not believe and follow God's Word. Only God's Word is true and you have provided none to support anything you have claimed here.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I have answered your question this OP is on free will. You are free to start another thread on your topic somewhere else if you wish to. I can understand why you always seek to change the subject matter however. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.
     
  10. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Well-Known Member

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    I think you're reluctant to answer the question.;)
    But if you don't wish to answer it, I understand.

    As for answering the OP, I've done that with others on this board in other threads... and it didn't make any difference, then, for me to present the Scriptures as much as I had.
    They still disagreed ( just as you will undoubtedly do ), no matter how much I presented and how detailed it got.
    I don't think you really do.
    I agree, sir.
    That is not my motivation for asking you the question on eternal torment.

    Since you're teaching what, to me, very much resembles "Wesleyan Arminianism", I thought I'd ask a bit further to see what organization you were part of.
    However, since it seems I'm not going to get an answer from you ( at least in this thread as well as the last ) about it, I will take my leave.

    I'm also reminded of a few passages that the Lord brought to my attention just now:

    2 Peter 2.
    2 Timothy 3:8.
    2 Timothy 3:13.
    2 Timothy 2:22-26. <---- It's this last one that I should have been doing all along, instead of getting caught up in the back-and-forth.:(


    This is my last reply in this thread.

    I wish you well, sir.:)
     
    #30 Dave Gilbert, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Yep I do. You wish to change the topic as it does not agree with you. It is God's Word not mine and we should bring everything to the light of God's Word as it is only in God's Word that we can know the truth and the truth canset us free. God's Word does not teach we are robots.
     
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    The GREEK from the OP on PHILEMON 1:14 says this...

    Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon

    ἑκουσιος , ἑκουσιον (ἑκων), “voluntary”: κατα ἑκουσιον, “of free will,” Philemon 1:14. (Numbers 15:3; καθ' ἑκουσιαν, Thucydides 8, 27 — *

    Vines
    Usage Notes: "willing," is used with kata in Philem. 1:14, lit., "according to willing," RV, "of free will" (AV, "willingly").

    ἑκούσιος, ία, ιον (Soph., Thu.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Philo) voluntary, as a volunteer κατὰ ἑκούσιον (opp. κατὰ ἀνάγκην) of one’s own free will Phlm 14 (Num 15:3

    William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 243.

    ἑκούσιος hekousios; from 1635; of free will, voluntary:—free will(1).

    Robert L. Thomas, New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries : Updated Edition (Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc., 1998).

    ἑκούσιος
    hekousios, adj., willing; acting of free will; willingly. 14× +NT

    The Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Septuagint (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2012).

    Hope this helps....
     
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Thanks for the discussion Dave. Your false allegations that you cannot prove from the scriptures are noted. I do not follow anyone except God's Word. In this thread I have only provided God's Word to you but you do not believe it. I can understand why you do not wish to talk about this topic as it does not agree with you, yet it is God's Word not mine so your arguement is with God not me. I only wish you well Dave. Maybe you can pray about it.
     
    #33 3rdAngel, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  14. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    one can realize their need and exercise the will given to us, but we can do little else without the finished work of Christ

    We have the free will to trust God or not. If any one does not believe we have free will, they ultimate believe God initiates sin.
    Free Will does not included the power to exercise choices, just wanting a choice
     
  15. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Can God be evil?
     
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Here's how it plays out. A cat is free to think and choose like a cat. But it cannot think and choose like a dog. Sinners are free to think and choose like a sinner, but they cannot think and choose like Jesus. When Jesus is in a person's heart, they cannot think and choose like the sinners they once were. They think like Jesus and choose what he chooses.
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Sorry but we are not cats and dogs we are made in the image of God *GENESIS 1:26 and have free will to choose to believe and follow God's Word or not to believe and follow God's Word *JOHN 3:15-21; PHILEMON 1:14; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:37; DEUTERONOMY 30:19; JOSHUA 24:14-15. God's Word is the power of creation as we believe 1 JOHN 5:4.
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We have sin natures, and as such, there are certain things that we will not desire nor want to do on our own, like obeying God and coming to Christ!
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are still free to do as we wish, but the sin nature limits us as to what we can desire and now wish to do!
     
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