Amen! Christ Jesus from heaven gave Paul His gospel for Paul to tell you all about getting into the Body of Christ. Jesus gave His earthly Apostles their own kingdom, of which I am not in, so I must come to Christ Jesus by the gospel He gave to Paul. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.Originally posted by williemakeit:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ituttut:
Only one doing the bringing of me. Thank you, Jesus.</font>
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Do you believe in Easter?
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Peter tells us that Paul has wisdom of Christ that no one else has, and we should listen to Paul. I listen to Paul, and it is Paul that says ”All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” in II Timothy 3:16. Since I listen to Paul’s gospel, it is up to me to understand the Old, as well as the New Testament. But all things are New now. ”Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.
Ga 1:23
But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Ituttut: It is funny you would stop where you did brother. For if you had kept reading you would discover that Paul preached the SAME faith as Peter.
Simple exegesis here my friend. If Paul was destroying a faith before he was saved, then gets saved and is NOW preaching that same faith then any sane person would conclude they are one and the same. Yet you claim that Paul's preaching a different faith and message. One that Jesus gave him that is catagorically different. Yet these are Paul's words here afirming that he preached the same message that he destroyed.
I know where you get your ideas and they are as far removed from sound teaching as one could get and still be christian. I count you as a brother, saved by the same Blood I am, but I fear you are doing a great disservice by claiming that Paul and Peter preached different messages.
Remember? One Lord. One Faith. One Body. One Spirit. etc...
In HIS service;
Jim
But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Ituttut: It is funny you would stop where you did brother. For if you had kept reading you would discover that Paul preached the SAME faith as Peter.
Simple exegesis here my friend. If Paul was destroying a faith before he was saved, then gets saved and is NOW preaching that same faith then any sane person would conclude they are one and the same. Yet you claim that Paul's preaching a different faith and message. One that Jesus gave him that is catagorically different. Yet these are Paul's words here afirming that he preached the same message that he destroyed.
I know where you get your ideas and they are as far removed from sound teaching as one could get and still be christian. I count you as a brother, saved by the same Blood I am, but I fear you are doing a great disservice by claiming that Paul and Peter preached different messages.
Remember? One Lord. One Faith. One Body. One Spirit. etc...
In HIS service;
Jim
Quoting robycop3,
"Do "I" believe in JESUS' DEATH & RESURRECTION?
Absolutely. 100%. No doubt.
Therefore I observe this day as RESURRECTION DAY, although I know Jesus was resurrected some time before Sunday had begun. I know the name "Easter" for this day has a pagan origin.
So, why do I observe this day? So as not to make others stumble; my non-observation might make someone think I take Jesus' actions lightly."
I don't understand a thing you're saying!
If Jesus had been resurrected "some time before Sunday had begun", and you "observe this day", then you should observe 'Saturday', the Sabbath Day, "before Sunday"?
See http://www.biblestudents.co.za
"Do "I" believe in JESUS' DEATH & RESURRECTION?
Absolutely. 100%. No doubt.
Therefore I observe this day as RESURRECTION DAY, although I know Jesus was resurrected some time before Sunday had begun. I know the name "Easter" for this day has a pagan origin.
So, why do I observe this day? So as not to make others stumble; my non-observation might make someone think I take Jesus' actions lightly."
I don't understand a thing you're saying!
If Jesus had been resurrected "some time before Sunday had begun", and you "observe this day", then you should observe 'Saturday', the Sabbath Day, "before Sunday"?
See http://www.biblestudents.co.za
Quoting,
"He gave up on the human race and made for Himself a Nation of His own. He is very particular of who those people are. They are from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
That is your version.
Paul, however, thought differently. He, said, God gave the Promises and Blessing to THE SEED - "ONE" - of Abraham's: "who is Christ"! So that all - and only those - of faith, Jew or Gentile regardless, shall receive the righteousness of God (Jesus Christ) through FAITH!
"He gave up on the human race and made for Himself a Nation of His own. He is very particular of who those people are. They are from the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
That is your version.
Paul, however, thought differently. He, said, God gave the Promises and Blessing to THE SEED - "ONE" - of Abraham's: "who is Christ"! So that all - and only those - of faith, Jew or Gentile regardless, shall receive the righteousness of God (Jesus Christ) through FAITH!
But my version comes directly from Paul our heavenly Apostle. You are using your version or some man’s version, for it is not the Word of God.
I see and hear arguments all the time trying to show all is the same as from the beginning. It just “ain’t so”. Christ tells us differently through Paul, but hardly anybody will listen to Him as He speaks from heaven. Romans 3:30, ”Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.”
Today we have gospel we are to believe, or disbelieve. A Gentile can never be a Jew, but the Jew was Gentile, then not, then sent back to their idolater ways again, becoming today as we Gentiles.
Oh so how much more we can love Him, that first loved us, if we Gentile’s could only see that we were not even included when He first came down to man. We could only come by hanging onto the Jew and serving THEM, never being able to enter into the Temple to be with Christ Jesus forever.
This is the reason for Paul, and the different gospel. It had to be for Jesus to have His inheritance. Colossians 1:12-15, ”Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13. Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:”
Let us not forget that Jews are literal, and part of Israel...and that God has made promises to LITERAL Israel and LITERAL Judah, including to make them one nation again, restoring them to prosperity...NOT because they DESERVE it, but to show them, and all the world, that HIS WORD STANDS, and that His power is limitless.
Jesus sent His disciples into ALL THE WORLD to spread the Gospel to Israeli and Gentile alike. And He was sure to include the conversions of several Gentiles within His word.
Sorry, Ittut, but the Jew was never a Gentile. He may have done as a pagan Gentile did, but he remained a Jew. Just because a zebra resembles a horse and acts like a horse doesn't make it a horse.
God told Jacob that the scepter(rulership) would remain with Judah. Now while the original Judah wasn't a ruler, once Israel demanded a king, the ruler has always been from the Jews. Saul, the first king, was from Benjamin, which became part of the Jews after Solomon's time, while David, of course, was descended directly from Judah.
God promised David an unending dynasty, and strongly reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, stating that if anyone could change God's setting the order of the cosmos, then could he break His covenant with David that he would always have rulers over some of Israel. This, of course, will culminate in JESUS' physical return to take over the throne of David forever.
Without getting into a "British Israelite" debate, can anyone tell us where on earth David's throne(rulership, not a physical throne) now is? According to Scripture, it MUST be here. Jesus flatly rejected being King during His first coming, so He didn't take that throne to heaven with Himself. God said that a descendant of David would rule at least some Israelis DURING EVERY GENERATION FROM SOLOMON ONWARD. Any thoughts?
Jesus sent His disciples into ALL THE WORLD to spread the Gospel to Israeli and Gentile alike. And He was sure to include the conversions of several Gentiles within His word.
Sorry, Ittut, but the Jew was never a Gentile. He may have done as a pagan Gentile did, but he remained a Jew. Just because a zebra resembles a horse and acts like a horse doesn't make it a horse.
God told Jacob that the scepter(rulership) would remain with Judah. Now while the original Judah wasn't a ruler, once Israel demanded a king, the ruler has always been from the Jews. Saul, the first king, was from Benjamin, which became part of the Jews after Solomon's time, while David, of course, was descended directly from Judah.
God promised David an unending dynasty, and strongly reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, stating that if anyone could change God's setting the order of the cosmos, then could he break His covenant with David that he would always have rulers over some of Israel. This, of course, will culminate in JESUS' physical return to take over the throne of David forever.
Without getting into a "British Israelite" debate, can anyone tell us where on earth David's throne(rulership, not a physical throne) now is? According to Scripture, it MUST be here. Jesus flatly rejected being King during His first coming, so He didn't take that throne to heaven with Himself. God said that a descendant of David would rule at least some Israelis DURING EVERY GENERATION FROM SOLOMON ONWARD. Any thoughts?
I’ll give you scripture, and not what I think, or someone else. But before that, can you tell me whom that descendant is today sitting on the throne of David? Fifty years ago, 100, 500, 1000? Was there a nation of Israel in 1500A.D.? What ruler from David sat on a Throne in Jerusalem then, or now? Matthew 23:36-39, ”Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38. Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
Robycop3, the nation in their generations is “kaput”. Christ Jesus speaks to all of us today. My Bible says in more than one scripture Israel is now cut-off. The generations stopped in that generation. We are living in the secret age of God. This secret age of God that has dropped down His Grace from heaven with be taken up again, and like the Red Sea, the troubled waters will come back together. And then that man of sin will become known.
Where did you come up with the idea Quote “Jesus flatly rejected being King during His first coming”Unquote? What scriptures are you basing this assumption on? John said ”He came unto his own, and his own received him not”. I’ll take John’s word here if you don’t mind.
Ituttut: Robycop3, the nation in their generations is “kaput”. Christ Jesus speaks to all of us today. My Bible says in more than one scripture Israel is now cut-off.
Jeremiah 3:18- "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers."
Jeremiah 23:6- "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jeremiah 33:14- "Behold, the days are coming,' says the LORD, "that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 33:23- Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 24"Have you not considered what these people have spoken, saying, "The two families which the LORD has chosen, He has also cast them off|'? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more be a nation before them.
25"Thus says the LORD: "If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants(plural) to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them."'(All above scriptures from the NKJV)
The generations stopped in that generation.
No, they DIDN'T! Where do you think today's Jews came from...Saturn? And GOD KNOWS who the descendants of the 10 tribes are, whether WE do or not.
We are living in the secret age of God.
NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Show us FROM SCRIPTURE where you got such a goofy idea! It's in direct conflict with
Amos 3:7-"Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets."
This secret age of God that has dropped down His Grace from heaven with be taken up again, and like the Red Sea, the troubled waters will come back together. And then that man of sin will become known.
There's NO secret age; JESUS was quite open with His ministry.
Amos 3:7-"Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets."
Where did you come up with the idea Quote “Jesus flatly rejected being King during His first coming”Unquote? What scriptures are you basing this assumption on? John said ”He came unto his own, and his own received him not”. I’ll take John’s word here ifyou don’t mind.
And I'll take Amos'word over yours any day! And also, Paul's! He wrote:
Romans 16:25- "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began"
When Jesus came, the secret of who the Messiah is was revealed. There's NOTHING about any "secret age" nonsense.
Now, as to JESUS' rejecting kingship at the time: John 6:15- "Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone."(That was after He had just fed some 5K people from one little picnic basket!)
As for David's throne, and the existence of Israelites...Scripture is quite clear they both exist, the Israeli people have existed since Jacob's sons were born, and David's throne since the last 33 years of his life. How important was GOD'S promise to David? He STRONGLY reiterated it to Jeremiah, also promising there'd always be Levites(now part of the Jews...every one with the surname COHEN, Hebrew for 'priest')
Did GOD say there'd always be a descendant of David ruling over ALL ISRAEL? Newp! OTOH, God made sure to place the story of His dividing Israel into Israel & Judah after Solomon's death, with each continuing as a separate kingdom, with the house of David ruling the Jews only.( Remember, Jew is a nick for JUDEAN, and includes the Benjaminites & most of the Levites as well as the tribe of Judah. Paul was a Jew of Benjamin.)
Believe David's throne ended with Zedekiah? NOT ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE! Let's see what God said to Ezekiel as recorded in the KJV:
Ezekiel 21:25- "And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
Quite plainly, God is referring to Zedekiah. And NOWHERE does He say the throne was ended; He says it WON'T BE THE SAME.
27 "I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him."
Let's examine this passage closely. Though I'm certainly no Hebrew expert, I spoke with a local rabbi who knows Hebrew quite well, and here's what he had to say...the three 'overturns' are the Hebrew word 'avvah', which means, to ruin or distort, & it can also mean 'overturn' in the sense of despoiling. There are THREE such overturns in this Scripture, which PLAINLY shows the throne did NOT end with Zedekiah, just mentioned in Scripture! This is the ONLY verse in which 'avvah' appears in the whole Bible.
As for "and it shall be no more", the Hebrew is-
suwm...put, set, place
bow...come, enter, arrive
mishpat...right, privilege
Clearly, the Hebrew means it shall be no more OVERTURNED(not DESTROYED) until He comes who has the right to it, and that, of course, is JESUS. We see Jesus did NOT take over an earthly throne while here as a man. As for His ascent to heaven...in several parables, He portrays Himself as a nobleman who made a journey to a distant place TO RECEIVE HIS KINGDOM. He begins to rule AFTER HIS RETURN! Although He's always been a King, He hasn't yet physically received His kingdom.
BTW, this is one verse where the KJV is the most-correct of the various English translations. There are many instances in the KJV where the predicate of a sentence is left uncompleted as compared to today's English. Thus, the word 'overturned' wasn't placed at the end of V. 27, but by the Hebrew, that's what it means. Otherwise, it would contradict the several previous verses in which GOD promises David an unending, uninterrupted dynasty. Anyone believe GOD didn't know all this beforehand?
Things to consider from Scripture:
"exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high."
Zedekiah and all Judah was soon abased. Now, who was low? The ten tribes of Israel! Somewhere, there were some Israelis exalted, or Scripture is wrong.
"this shall not be the same." What was God talking about? Why, the diadem & crown, of course, the symbols of royalty. How could they not be the same? The ruler could be known by another title such as "chief" or "head man", or any number of other names, while still being the de-facto ruler.
David had many sons, but the throne was established by GOD through SOLOMON. Solomon had many sons himself, and thus many descendants, and God is not specific about which one should be the ruler. Some, he DQ'd their offspring, such as Jeconiah; others, He removed, such as Zedekiah.
While CERTAINLY NOT a racist "British Israelite", the throne of England seems a possible candidate for the throne which jesus will take over. It's been overturned twice, from Ireland, to Scotland, to England(by King James, king of Scotland).
HOW SURE IS GOD'S PROMISE TO DAVID?
"I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I
anointed him......... My mercy will I keep for him for ever
more, and my COVENANT shall STAND FAST with him. His SEED
also will I make to endure forever, and HIS THRONE AS THE
DAYS OF HEAVEN. If his children forsake my law, and walk not
in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my
commandments, then will I visit their transgression with the
rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my
lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer
my faithfulness to fail. My COVENANT WILL I NOT BREAK, nor
alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I
SWORN by my HOLINESS that I will not lie unto David. HIS
SEED SHALL ENDURE FOREVER AND HIS THRONE AS THE SUN BEFORE
ME. IT SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER AS THE MOON, AND AS A
FAITHFUL WITNESS IN HEAVEN." (PS.89 :20-37).
IT'S RIGHT THERE IN YOUR OWN BIBLE, whether you use an older version or a newer one. DAVID'S DYNASTY IS NOT TO BE INTERRUPTED FOR SO MUCH AS ONE GENERATION!!!!!!!!! It may be called something else, but it's still the SAME DYNASTY or Scripture is wrong. And, no, I'm NOT lending any private interpretation to Scripture; I'm pointing out what's LITERALLY WRITTEN in Scripture, letting it interpret itself!
Sorry, Ituttut, your "secret age" stuff is malarkey, with NO SCRIPTURAL BACKING, while the facts of Israel, Judah, and David's throne are plainly proclaimed in SCRIPTURE. I have answered with SCRIPTURE, not guesswork or opinion.
I'm open to any other existing rulership being of David's dynasty, if one can present proof. Right now, to me, the British throne seems the best candidate, due to its two known overturns and its world influence. ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, IT'S GOTTA BE HERE SOMEWHERE!
Jeremiah 3:18- "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers."
Jeremiah 23:6- "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
Jeremiah 33:14- "Behold, the days are coming,' says the LORD, "that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 33:23- Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 24"Have you not considered what these people have spoken, saying, "The two families which the LORD has chosen, He has also cast them off|'? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more be a nation before them.
25"Thus says the LORD: "If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants(plural) to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them."'(All above scriptures from the NKJV)
The generations stopped in that generation.
No, they DIDN'T! Where do you think today's Jews came from...Saturn? And GOD KNOWS who the descendants of the 10 tribes are, whether WE do or not.
We are living in the secret age of God.
NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Show us FROM SCRIPTURE where you got such a goofy idea! It's in direct conflict with
Amos 3:7-"Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets."
This secret age of God that has dropped down His Grace from heaven with be taken up again, and like the Red Sea, the troubled waters will come back together. And then that man of sin will become known.
There's NO secret age; JESUS was quite open with His ministry.
Amos 3:7-"Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets."
Where did you come up with the idea Quote “Jesus flatly rejected being King during His first coming”Unquote? What scriptures are you basing this assumption on? John said ”He came unto his own, and his own received him not”. I’ll take John’s word here ifyou don’t mind.
And I'll take Amos'word over yours any day! And also, Paul's! He wrote:
Romans 16:25- "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began"
When Jesus came, the secret of who the Messiah is was revealed. There's NOTHING about any "secret age" nonsense.
Now, as to JESUS' rejecting kingship at the time: John 6:15- "Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone."(That was after He had just fed some 5K people from one little picnic basket!)
As for David's throne, and the existence of Israelites...Scripture is quite clear they both exist, the Israeli people have existed since Jacob's sons were born, and David's throne since the last 33 years of his life. How important was GOD'S promise to David? He STRONGLY reiterated it to Jeremiah, also promising there'd always be Levites(now part of the Jews...every one with the surname COHEN, Hebrew for 'priest')
Did GOD say there'd always be a descendant of David ruling over ALL ISRAEL? Newp! OTOH, God made sure to place the story of His dividing Israel into Israel & Judah after Solomon's death, with each continuing as a separate kingdom, with the house of David ruling the Jews only.( Remember, Jew is a nick for JUDEAN, and includes the Benjaminites & most of the Levites as well as the tribe of Judah. Paul was a Jew of Benjamin.)
Believe David's throne ended with Zedekiah? NOT ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE! Let's see what God said to Ezekiel as recorded in the KJV:
Ezekiel 21:25- "And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
Quite plainly, God is referring to Zedekiah. And NOWHERE does He say the throne was ended; He says it WON'T BE THE SAME.
27 "I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him."
Let's examine this passage closely. Though I'm certainly no Hebrew expert, I spoke with a local rabbi who knows Hebrew quite well, and here's what he had to say...the three 'overturns' are the Hebrew word 'avvah', which means, to ruin or distort, & it can also mean 'overturn' in the sense of despoiling. There are THREE such overturns in this Scripture, which PLAINLY shows the throne did NOT end with Zedekiah, just mentioned in Scripture! This is the ONLY verse in which 'avvah' appears in the whole Bible.
As for "and it shall be no more", the Hebrew is-
suwm...put, set, place
bow...come, enter, arrive
mishpat...right, privilege
Clearly, the Hebrew means it shall be no more OVERTURNED(not DESTROYED) until He comes who has the right to it, and that, of course, is JESUS. We see Jesus did NOT take over an earthly throne while here as a man. As for His ascent to heaven...in several parables, He portrays Himself as a nobleman who made a journey to a distant place TO RECEIVE HIS KINGDOM. He begins to rule AFTER HIS RETURN! Although He's always been a King, He hasn't yet physically received His kingdom.
BTW, this is one verse where the KJV is the most-correct of the various English translations. There are many instances in the KJV where the predicate of a sentence is left uncompleted as compared to today's English. Thus, the word 'overturned' wasn't placed at the end of V. 27, but by the Hebrew, that's what it means. Otherwise, it would contradict the several previous verses in which GOD promises David an unending, uninterrupted dynasty. Anyone believe GOD didn't know all this beforehand?
Things to consider from Scripture:
"exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high."
Zedekiah and all Judah was soon abased. Now, who was low? The ten tribes of Israel! Somewhere, there were some Israelis exalted, or Scripture is wrong.
"this shall not be the same." What was God talking about? Why, the diadem & crown, of course, the symbols of royalty. How could they not be the same? The ruler could be known by another title such as "chief" or "head man", or any number of other names, while still being the de-facto ruler.
David had many sons, but the throne was established by GOD through SOLOMON. Solomon had many sons himself, and thus many descendants, and God is not specific about which one should be the ruler. Some, he DQ'd their offspring, such as Jeconiah; others, He removed, such as Zedekiah.
While CERTAINLY NOT a racist "British Israelite", the throne of England seems a possible candidate for the throne which jesus will take over. It's been overturned twice, from Ireland, to Scotland, to England(by King James, king of Scotland).
HOW SURE IS GOD'S PROMISE TO DAVID?
"I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I
anointed him......... My mercy will I keep for him for ever
more, and my COVENANT shall STAND FAST with him. His SEED
also will I make to endure forever, and HIS THRONE AS THE
DAYS OF HEAVEN. If his children forsake my law, and walk not
in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my
commandments, then will I visit their transgression with the
rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my
lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer
my faithfulness to fail. My COVENANT WILL I NOT BREAK, nor
alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I
SWORN by my HOLINESS that I will not lie unto David. HIS
SEED SHALL ENDURE FOREVER AND HIS THRONE AS THE SUN BEFORE
ME. IT SHALL BE ESTABLISHED FOR EVER AS THE MOON, AND AS A
FAITHFUL WITNESS IN HEAVEN." (PS.89 :20-37).
IT'S RIGHT THERE IN YOUR OWN BIBLE, whether you use an older version or a newer one. DAVID'S DYNASTY IS NOT TO BE INTERRUPTED FOR SO MUCH AS ONE GENERATION!!!!!!!!! It may be called something else, but it's still the SAME DYNASTY or Scripture is wrong. And, no, I'm NOT lending any private interpretation to Scripture; I'm pointing out what's LITERALLY WRITTEN in Scripture, letting it interpret itself!
Sorry, Ituttut, your "secret age" stuff is malarkey, with NO SCRIPTURAL BACKING, while the facts of Israel, Judah, and David's throne are plainly proclaimed in SCRIPTURE. I have answered with SCRIPTURE, not guesswork or opinion.
I'm open to any other existing rulership being of David's dynasty, if one can present proof. Right now, to me, the British throne seems the best candidate, due to its two known overturns and its world influence. ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, IT'S GOTTA BE HERE SOMEWHERE!
I notice you cannot refute anything I have put forward, so you avoid scripture I have presented. I have just disproved your erroneous take of the throne. Surely you must know the King will have to be in the Holy City of Jerusalem. The City is not Holy today, and there is no Temple, and no throne. And there certainly is no throne hidden in any Gentile nation.
I have shown you truth, and that is all I can do. Christian faith, ituttut.
Ituttut, I asked you for some SCRIPTURE to back your "secret age" mumbo-jumbo, and you've provided none.
The present nation of Israel is actually the nation of Judah. Only an idiot would say differently. Now, is GOD building them or not? Shortly after they became a nation again, her neighbors ganged up on her, intending to wipe them out, but instead, the Jews whupped them badly, and in every subsequent war, the Jews have THRASHED the ragheads badly, so that now, 55 million ragheads tremble every time Ariel Sharon, representing 4.8 million people, rattles his saber. Zechariah's prophecies about the Philistines has come to pass. Remember, today's Palestinians are largely the descendants of the old Philistines. They exist today only at the pleasure of the Jews. Just as God told Zechariah, Ashdod is occupied by a foreign people(the Jews) as seen through Palestinian eyes. The other four great Philistine cities are archaeological digs today.
And what about EGYPT? Through Isaiah, God spoke against Egypt, saying she would be a base(low) nation, and in Ch.19, He says Egypt will fail in everything she tries. Is this not now true? Does Egypt not rely upon the USA for most of her foods and medicines? And is she not afraid of the Jews, whether she admits it or not? Isaiah 19:17, NKJV-"And the land of Judah will be a terror to Egypt; everyone who makes mention of it will be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts which He has determined against it.
(Reading onward in Ch.19, we see God is eventually gonna BLESS Egypt. Why, I don't know; I know only that HE said it & therefore it WILL happen.)
You've missed the bus about the Gentiles too, saying none were preached to until the house of Cornelius was. The apostle Luke was a Greek. The samaritan woman to whom Jesus referred about dogs was accounted worthy by Him because of her faith. Then there was the Roman centurion whose servant Jesus healed by His word, saying, "Never have I seen such faith in all Israel!" True, they didn't receive the Holy Spirit at that time, but there can be no doubt that they believed in Him and that He saved them. And what about the Samaritan woman at the well?
In Romans 1:16, 2:9-10, Paul says salvation (and PUNISHMENT) is for the Jew first, then for the Greek. The Greek is mentioned because the only peoples more Gentile to the Jews than were the Greeks were the Samaritans & the Amalekites. True, Jesus went only to JEWISH towns, but there were doubtlessly many Gentiles living in them also. Gentiles were saved early on.
As for David's throne, you're completely wrong. God plainly says IT WAS ESTABLISHED FOREVER, BEGINNING WITH SOLOMON. Ezekiel 12:26 refers to Zedekiah. God removed the rulership from him. If it were disestablished at the time, then God was wrong when He said it was established FOREVER, and again, how could it be overturned three times if it didn't exist? And when He said it wouldn't be the same, can you say with certainty how it would change? Of course not. Instead of being called "king", the ruler could be called "Prime Minister, President, Generalissimo, Chief", or any other of a whole host of titles. We all know that in England the PM has more power than the queen, and in Japan the Emperor is mostly a figurehead. In Cuba, Castro has more power than any of today's kings, and Saddam had similar power in Iraq. And it's plain from Scripture that God did NOT establish David's throne over ALL Israel for all time, as He took all but the Jews from Rehoboam's rule. I BELIEVE GOD'S WORD LITERALLY, and do NOT subscribe to man's private interpretations. God said He was establishing David's throne FOREVER, beginning with Solomon; He STRONGLY reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, and I believe it as Baruch wrote it, free of the imaginings and speculations of man.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason God reiterated His promise to David so strongly to Jeremiah was that He was preparing to dethrone Zedekiah, and He wanted to assure Jeremiah that He was NOT ending David's throne, but only Zedekiah's line? Remember, Solomon had many sons, and after him, God did NOT specify which one(s) would continue on David's throne. God also said that if they sinned, (as He knew they would) He would NOT remove the throne from them as He'd done with Saul.
Ituttut: Scripture is correct, and you are wrong. Verse 26 explains the crown is taken off, and awaits the coming of the kingdom.
No, YOU are wrong. Verse 25 shows God is speaking of Zedekiah, and V.26 says He is ending Zed's reign, NOT that He's ending the THRONE. I believe the Scriptures LITERALLY, and that's literally what they say here. It is YOU who cannot refute what I've said, by SCRIPTURE. God said He would establish David's throne FOREVER, beginning with Solomon, and there no conditions set...that was GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE TO DAVID! God said He would NOT end the throne nor remove it from David's house if his descendants sinned, as God jolly well knew they would. Therefore, if God ended the throne with Zed, He broke His promise to David, which He had just reiterated strongly to Jeremiah.
I notice you cannot refute anything I have put forward, so you avoid scripture I have presented.
It was refuted before you ever said it. And you've put forward mostly the same Scriptures I have. All YOU'VE put forward otherwise is a private interpretation of these Scriptures.
I have just disproved your erroneous take of the throne.
No, you haven't. God said it's established FOREVER, and HE is right, not you.
Surely you must know the King will have to be in the Holy City of Jerusalem.
And so He will be, once He takes over His throne. He will move it there from wherever it is when He arrives.
The City is not Holy today, and there is no Temple, and no throne.
It's still being trodden underfoot by the gentiles, but not for much longer. The rise of Judah proves the time of the gentiles is drawing to a close. You say we're not under prophecy today? BAH ! HUMBUG! SHAME ON YOU! The rise of Judah, her moving her capitol to Jerusalem, her crushing defeats of her enemies, her occupation and development of Ashdod, her growing wealth, her military potential, were NOT accomplished by human effort! In 57 years, Judah has gone from a collection of kibbutzim and villages to the 3rd or 4th-strongest military power of all time. How could a nation of only some 4 million people do that on its own? I believe prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes, and that your "secred age" malarkey is just that...MALARKEY!
And there certainly is no throne hidden in any Gentile nation.
Can you PROVE it? Can you prove GOD wrong? After all, the ten tribes are still hidden, thinking themselves gentiles. You have no answer for "exalt him that is low & abase him that is high". You try to tell me God said the throne is ended when that's NOT what SCRIPTURE says.
While I don't question your salvation, you've shown us that your so-called exegesis is really EISEGESIS, placing your private interpretation, or that of some crackpot, on Scripture. History clearly bears out the truth of prophecy and Scripture LITERALLY.
The present nation of Israel is actually the nation of Judah. Only an idiot would say differently. Now, is GOD building them or not? Shortly after they became a nation again, her neighbors ganged up on her, intending to wipe them out, but instead, the Jews whupped them badly, and in every subsequent war, the Jews have THRASHED the ragheads badly, so that now, 55 million ragheads tremble every time Ariel Sharon, representing 4.8 million people, rattles his saber. Zechariah's prophecies about the Philistines has come to pass. Remember, today's Palestinians are largely the descendants of the old Philistines. They exist today only at the pleasure of the Jews. Just as God told Zechariah, Ashdod is occupied by a foreign people(the Jews) as seen through Palestinian eyes. The other four great Philistine cities are archaeological digs today.
And what about EGYPT? Through Isaiah, God spoke against Egypt, saying she would be a base(low) nation, and in Ch.19, He says Egypt will fail in everything she tries. Is this not now true? Does Egypt not rely upon the USA for most of her foods and medicines? And is she not afraid of the Jews, whether she admits it or not? Isaiah 19:17, NKJV-"And the land of Judah will be a terror to Egypt; everyone who makes mention of it will be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts which He has determined against it.
(Reading onward in Ch.19, we see God is eventually gonna BLESS Egypt. Why, I don't know; I know only that HE said it & therefore it WILL happen.)
You've missed the bus about the Gentiles too, saying none were preached to until the house of Cornelius was. The apostle Luke was a Greek. The samaritan woman to whom Jesus referred about dogs was accounted worthy by Him because of her faith. Then there was the Roman centurion whose servant Jesus healed by His word, saying, "Never have I seen such faith in all Israel!" True, they didn't receive the Holy Spirit at that time, but there can be no doubt that they believed in Him and that He saved them. And what about the Samaritan woman at the well?
In Romans 1:16, 2:9-10, Paul says salvation (and PUNISHMENT) is for the Jew first, then for the Greek. The Greek is mentioned because the only peoples more Gentile to the Jews than were the Greeks were the Samaritans & the Amalekites. True, Jesus went only to JEWISH towns, but there were doubtlessly many Gentiles living in them also. Gentiles were saved early on.
As for David's throne, you're completely wrong. God plainly says IT WAS ESTABLISHED FOREVER, BEGINNING WITH SOLOMON. Ezekiel 12:26 refers to Zedekiah. God removed the rulership from him. If it were disestablished at the time, then God was wrong when He said it was established FOREVER, and again, how could it be overturned three times if it didn't exist? And when He said it wouldn't be the same, can you say with certainty how it would change? Of course not. Instead of being called "king", the ruler could be called "Prime Minister, President, Generalissimo, Chief", or any other of a whole host of titles. We all know that in England the PM has more power than the queen, and in Japan the Emperor is mostly a figurehead. In Cuba, Castro has more power than any of today's kings, and Saddam had similar power in Iraq. And it's plain from Scripture that God did NOT establish David's throne over ALL Israel for all time, as He took all but the Jews from Rehoboam's rule. I BELIEVE GOD'S WORD LITERALLY, and do NOT subscribe to man's private interpretations. God said He was establishing David's throne FOREVER, beginning with Solomon; He STRONGLY reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, and I believe it as Baruch wrote it, free of the imaginings and speculations of man.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason God reiterated His promise to David so strongly to Jeremiah was that He was preparing to dethrone Zedekiah, and He wanted to assure Jeremiah that He was NOT ending David's throne, but only Zedekiah's line? Remember, Solomon had many sons, and after him, God did NOT specify which one(s) would continue on David's throne. God also said that if they sinned, (as He knew they would) He would NOT remove the throne from them as He'd done with Saul.
Ituttut: Scripture is correct, and you are wrong. Verse 26 explains the crown is taken off, and awaits the coming of the kingdom.
No, YOU are wrong. Verse 25 shows God is speaking of Zedekiah, and V.26 says He is ending Zed's reign, NOT that He's ending the THRONE. I believe the Scriptures LITERALLY, and that's literally what they say here. It is YOU who cannot refute what I've said, by SCRIPTURE. God said He would establish David's throne FOREVER, beginning with Solomon, and there no conditions set...that was GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE TO DAVID! God said He would NOT end the throne nor remove it from David's house if his descendants sinned, as God jolly well knew they would. Therefore, if God ended the throne with Zed, He broke His promise to David, which He had just reiterated strongly to Jeremiah.
I notice you cannot refute anything I have put forward, so you avoid scripture I have presented.
It was refuted before you ever said it. And you've put forward mostly the same Scriptures I have. All YOU'VE put forward otherwise is a private interpretation of these Scriptures.
I have just disproved your erroneous take of the throne.
No, you haven't. God said it's established FOREVER, and HE is right, not you.
Surely you must know the King will have to be in the Holy City of Jerusalem.
And so He will be, once He takes over His throne. He will move it there from wherever it is when He arrives.
The City is not Holy today, and there is no Temple, and no throne.
It's still being trodden underfoot by the gentiles, but not for much longer. The rise of Judah proves the time of the gentiles is drawing to a close. You say we're not under prophecy today? BAH ! HUMBUG! SHAME ON YOU! The rise of Judah, her moving her capitol to Jerusalem, her crushing defeats of her enemies, her occupation and development of Ashdod, her growing wealth, her military potential, were NOT accomplished by human effort! In 57 years, Judah has gone from a collection of kibbutzim and villages to the 3rd or 4th-strongest military power of all time. How could a nation of only some 4 million people do that on its own? I believe prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes, and that your "secred age" malarkey is just that...MALARKEY!
And there certainly is no throne hidden in any Gentile nation.
Can you PROVE it? Can you prove GOD wrong? After all, the ten tribes are still hidden, thinking themselves gentiles. You have no answer for "exalt him that is low & abase him that is high". You try to tell me God said the throne is ended when that's NOT what SCRIPTURE says.
While I don't question your salvation, you've shown us that your so-called exegesis is really EISEGESIS, placing your private interpretation, or that of some crackpot, on Scripture. History clearly bears out the truth of prophecy and Scripture LITERALLY.
Robycop3, good! Thanks, and God bless! The Scriptures say, two things, different, but not contradictory - it says, "answer the fool in his foolishness"; and it says, "Do not answer the fool in his foolishness!"
I just say this again: that Paul said, that God gave the Promises and the Blessing, to the "SEED, that is, Jesus Christ". He reserved no Promise and no Blessing to either men born of Hagar, or, men born of Sarah - but to Christ only, and in, and through Him, through faith by grace, to any man.
GE
I just say this again: that Paul said, that God gave the Promises and the Blessing, to the "SEED, that is, Jesus Christ". He reserved no Promise and no Blessing to either men born of Hagar, or, men born of Sarah - but to Christ only, and in, and through Him, through faith by grace, to any man.
GE
While I will NOT call the gent in question any uncomplimentary name, I WILL say he's picked up some foolish doctrine somewhere. I have absolutely no reason to not believe the Scriptures literally. God plainly said that He'd establish David's throne FOREVER, beginning with Solomon. He plainly said He would NOT remove the throne from David's line if they sinned. If He had ended the throne with Zedekiah, that woulda been against His previous words, which He had recently reiterated to Jeremiah. He said the throne WOULD NOT BE THE SAME, not that it was ending. Ezekiel 21:25-26 are NOT prophecies that the throne was ended...it's a literal command for Zedekiah to step down from it, which God carried out through the Babylonians. God was especially angry with Zed because Zed had promised loyalty to Nebuchadnezzar, IN GOD'S NAME...and then, rebelled.
How could the throne not be the same? It could be known by another name, such as Presidency. After all, the ten tribes of Israel are called by other names, and don't know they're Israelis. And, if the throne ended with Zed, how could it be overturned three times? And even if Jesus had become de-facto King in His first coming, that would still leave a gap of over 600 years between kings, if the throne had ended.
Here's what gabriel said to Mary concerning Jesus: Luke 1:31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
We know Jesus didn't become great nor did He reign over Israel while He was here before. This is a future event. And for GOD to give JESUS the throne of David, IT'S GOTTA BE HERE!! Great scott; that's COMMON SENSE, especially in light of God's promise that He had established it FOREVER!
As for any "secret age"......This is the AGE OF GRACE. Anyone can be saved by believing in JESUS CHRIST as Lord & Savior, accepting His GRACE(unmerited favor) to salvation. Nothing secret about that, nor in the actual ministry of Jesus Himself. All is up front and open!
How could the throne not be the same? It could be known by another name, such as Presidency. After all, the ten tribes of Israel are called by other names, and don't know they're Israelis. And, if the throne ended with Zed, how could it be overturned three times? And even if Jesus had become de-facto King in His first coming, that would still leave a gap of over 600 years between kings, if the throne had ended.
Here's what gabriel said to Mary concerning Jesus: Luke 1:31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."
We know Jesus didn't become great nor did He reign over Israel while He was here before. This is a future event. And for GOD to give JESUS the throne of David, IT'S GOTTA BE HERE!! Great scott; that's COMMON SENSE, especially in light of God's promise that He had established it FOREVER!
As for any "secret age"......This is the AGE OF GRACE. Anyone can be saved by believing in JESUS CHRIST as Lord & Savior, accepting His GRACE(unmerited favor) to salvation. Nothing secret about that, nor in the actual ministry of Jesus Himself. All is up front and open!
Your countenance has dropped, and civility is disappearing. Should you decide to answer, please calm down a little, should you wish to continue to learn what God is here trying to show you. I would never think of questioning your salvation, but I do question your understanding in this matter.
I don’t believe you are reading my posts. I answered “exalt him that is low & abase him that is high”. Please pay attention this time. Three times the word of God came to Ezekiel, in verses 21:1, 21:8, and 21:18. This is important for God wants us to understand about Jerusalem, Zedekiah, and the throne, and the future. Verses as follow:
2 – “prophesy against the land of Israel”.
3 – “I am against thee”.
4 – His sword “will not return any more” to His sheath. This means judgment then, just as in A.D. 70, and what lies ahead.
25 – “And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end .” This is talking about Zedekiah.
26 – “Thus saith the Lord God; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.” It is not going to be the same anymore. He that is high, Zedekiah will be made low.
27 – “I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.” God says here that He will give the throne that will be in Jerusalem. He overturns Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar in that dispensation; Overturned in 70A.D., and will do so in the end as anti-Christ takes over Israel. It starts with Zedekiah and ends with anti-Christ, and the throne that was established will be occupied again as verse 27 says God will give it to Him.
Sorry, Ituttut, your private interpretation will go nowhere. God told David that He would establish his throne FOREVER, BEGINNING WITH SOLOMON. God said that if David's descendants sinned(which David, Solomon, and all the others certainly did!) that He would NOT end the dynasty as He did Saul's, but He would chastise them with rods of iron. Again, He strongly reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, saying that if one could break His ordinances of the cosmic order, then one could break His promises to David.
Did I say that a literal throne of David's, a ceremonial chair that a king or queen sits in, is hidden somewhere? No, I said that the ruling dynasty of David's descendants still exists somewhere, with at least one of them ruling over some Israelites somewhere. God said it wouldn't be the same. Right now, it could be any title from actual king ot quenn to a head of a clan. FOR THE RULERSHIP TO EXIST UNBROKEN AS GOD PROMISED DAVID, THERE HAS TO BE AN EXISTING RULER ACTUALLY RULING ISRAELITES! That's common sense. Remember, in several of His parables, Jesus portrays Himself as a nobleman who journeyed to receive His kingdom. When he returned, HE WAS KING, and took over the rule of the land in His parables. And in His parables, His rule was all-encompassing.
YOU question MY understanding? I believe the Scriptures LITERALLY. I have no reason NOT to thus believe them. History, archaeology, and current events bear this out. How you can deny that modern Israel is the beginning of the restoration of Judah as God promised is beyond me, in the light of the prophesies fulfilled within the last 50 years.
King in Jerusalem? Jesus WILL rule from there, but there's nothing in Scripture that says David's throne MUST be there till He returns.
No one occupying David's throne(rulership)? If that were true, then that rulership would no longer exist, would it, and God's promise woulda failed. No, I don't know for sure where it is or who's on it, but I DO know it exists because God said it would exist FOREVER, unbroken. I have offered the British throne as a possibility because it's been overturned three times, and is both prominent and quite ancient. However, my view is not set in stone except for the view that David's throne IS here and IS occupied because GOD SAID IT WOULD BE. YOUR view is a denial of one of God's most enphatic promises ever made to one man, and you simply cannot match it to Scripture without a lotta cutting, shaving, denying, & twisting.
Did I say that a literal throne of David's, a ceremonial chair that a king or queen sits in, is hidden somewhere? No, I said that the ruling dynasty of David's descendants still exists somewhere, with at least one of them ruling over some Israelites somewhere. God said it wouldn't be the same. Right now, it could be any title from actual king ot quenn to a head of a clan. FOR THE RULERSHIP TO EXIST UNBROKEN AS GOD PROMISED DAVID, THERE HAS TO BE AN EXISTING RULER ACTUALLY RULING ISRAELITES! That's common sense. Remember, in several of His parables, Jesus portrays Himself as a nobleman who journeyed to receive His kingdom. When he returned, HE WAS KING, and took over the rule of the land in His parables. And in His parables, His rule was all-encompassing.
YOU question MY understanding? I believe the Scriptures LITERALLY. I have no reason NOT to thus believe them. History, archaeology, and current events bear this out. How you can deny that modern Israel is the beginning of the restoration of Judah as God promised is beyond me, in the light of the prophesies fulfilled within the last 50 years.
King in Jerusalem? Jesus WILL rule from there, but there's nothing in Scripture that says David's throne MUST be there till He returns.
No one occupying David's throne(rulership)? If that were true, then that rulership would no longer exist, would it, and God's promise woulda failed. No, I don't know for sure where it is or who's on it, but I DO know it exists because God said it would exist FOREVER, unbroken. I have offered the British throne as a possibility because it's been overturned three times, and is both prominent and quite ancient. However, my view is not set in stone except for the view that David's throne IS here and IS occupied because GOD SAID IT WOULD BE. YOUR view is a denial of one of God's most enphatic promises ever made to one man, and you simply cannot match it to Scripture without a lotta cutting, shaving, denying, & twisting.
Yes I agree there will be Hebrews on this earth after the rapture, and from all twelve tribes, for there will be 144,000 spreading the gospel of “repent and be baptized” for the remission of sins. The “great commission” will be carried out to all the world, to the Jew first, and then to the Gentile. But we won’t be here.
As I study further in His Word to disprove the way of man, I find your argument will not hold water. Look at I Kings 2:12, ”Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.” Whose kingdom is here greatly established? Solomon’s, and not David’s. That kingdom ended with Zedekiah, but David’s continues, but not realized.
The house of Israel would not accept the One to set upon the throne of Israel. This one of God and of woman was exiled from His rightful place by His people. The Holy Ghost was then also rejected a year later after Pentecost. The throne remains empty for there is no Holy City to place it, and no Temple therein, and Israel has no King. ituttut.
Ituttut: But robycope3 it is not my private interpretation. It is the interpretation of the Holy Spirit, and I know of at least a few Christians that believe as I, and as God informs. But even if no one else agreed with His Word, I would for when we correctly divide His Word, it is the Holy Spirits interpretation.
So, the Holy Spirit visited you personally and gave you an advanced revelation leaving all the rest of us still believing the Scriptures are correct as written? Yeah, right...
I let slide a couple of times your reference to Solomon. I was hoping you would catch your mistake. The throne of David does not come through Solomon. I was hoping you were not denying that Mary was a virgin, and that Jesus was not the Son of God.
It's not MY reference. After reading the following Scriptures, please read the surrounding verses to see exactly TO WHOM God is referring and speaking.
2 Samuel 7:13
He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
1 Kings 9:5
then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, as I promised David your father, saying, "You shall not fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'
1 Chronicles 17:12
He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne forever.
1 Chronicles 17:14
And I will establish him in My house and in My kingdom forever; and his throne shall be established forever.""'
1 Chronicles 22:10
He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'
2 Chronicles 7:18
then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, "You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.'
2 Chronicles 9:8
Blessed be the LORD your God, who delighted in you, setting you on His throne to be king for the LORD your God! Because your God has loved Israel, to establish them forever, therefore He made you king over them, to do justice and righteousness."
Psalm 89:4
"Your seed I will establish forever, And build up your throne to all generations."'Selah
(All Scriptures from the NKJV)
The “everlasting throne” did not go through Solomon, but through Nathan, a son of David.
So the Bible is wrong? I see...
To go through Solomon would make Joseph the father of Jesus. His Word says Mary was a virgin. Mary and Joseph did not have intercourse until after the Holy Spirit impregnated her, and I am sure Mary and Joseph’s marriage was not consummated until after Mary delivered the Son of God, Jesus.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. But most of the rest of your pontification is out on left field anyway, so I shouldn't expect any better.
God is the Father of Jesus, and Joseph is His father surrogate. Mary is of the seed of David through David’s son Nathan. The Throne is Unoccupied today, and any that tries to occupy will be “overturned”. Satan will be overturned, and the rightful owner with then take possession of the throne forever more.
Case in point, against all reality. The "throne" CANNOT be here if it's unoccupied.
I can enlighten further if you wish, using scripture. I do not put forth things that cannot be proved by scripture.
So far, you've had an obvious track record of doing JUST THAT!
As I study further in His Word to disprove the way of man, I find your argument will not hold water. Look at I Kings 2:12, ”Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.” Whose kingdom is here greatly established? Solomon’s, and not David’s.
How silly! David was Solomon's father; DAVID built the kingdom under God's direction; Solomon inherited what God through David had built.
That kingdom ended with Zedekiah, but David’s continues, but not realized.
Then you're calling GOD a LIAR. You're swimming in DANGEROUS WATERS, Bro.
The house of Israel would not accept the One to set upon the throne of Israel. This one of God and of woman was exiled from His rightful place by His people. The Holy Ghost was then also rejected a year later after Pentecost. The throne remains empty for there is no Holy City to place it, and no Temple therein, and Israel has no King. ituttut.
Poppycock.
Somewhere, there is a descendant of David's (and SOLOMON'S) ruling over Israelites, just as God said there'd ALWAYS be. The ONLY promise God reiterates in such manner as He reiterated His promist to David is the promise of the Messiah.
And please read your Bible, 2 Chronicles 7, to see whom GOD said would be David's son through whom He would establish David's throne forever...the SAME SON who would build the temple...the SAME SON to whom God was speaking!
So, the Holy Spirit visited you personally and gave you an advanced revelation leaving all the rest of us still believing the Scriptures are correct as written? Yeah, right...
I let slide a couple of times your reference to Solomon. I was hoping you would catch your mistake. The throne of David does not come through Solomon. I was hoping you were not denying that Mary was a virgin, and that Jesus was not the Son of God.
It's not MY reference. After reading the following Scriptures, please read the surrounding verses to see exactly TO WHOM God is referring and speaking.
2 Samuel 7:13
He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
1 Kings 9:5
then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, as I promised David your father, saying, "You shall not fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'
1 Chronicles 17:12
He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne forever.
1 Chronicles 17:14
And I will establish him in My house and in My kingdom forever; and his throne shall be established forever.""'
1 Chronicles 22:10
He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.'
2 Chronicles 7:18
then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, "You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.'
2 Chronicles 9:8
Blessed be the LORD your God, who delighted in you, setting you on His throne to be king for the LORD your God! Because your God has loved Israel, to establish them forever, therefore He made you king over them, to do justice and righteousness."
Psalm 89:4
"Your seed I will establish forever, And build up your throne to all generations."'Selah
(All Scriptures from the NKJV)
The “everlasting throne” did not go through Solomon, but through Nathan, a son of David.
So the Bible is wrong? I see...
To go through Solomon would make Joseph the father of Jesus. His Word says Mary was a virgin. Mary and Joseph did not have intercourse until after the Holy Spirit impregnated her, and I am sure Mary and Joseph’s marriage was not consummated until after Mary delivered the Son of God, Jesus.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand. But most of the rest of your pontification is out on left field anyway, so I shouldn't expect any better.
God is the Father of Jesus, and Joseph is His father surrogate. Mary is of the seed of David through David’s son Nathan. The Throne is Unoccupied today, and any that tries to occupy will be “overturned”. Satan will be overturned, and the rightful owner with then take possession of the throne forever more.
Case in point, against all reality. The "throne" CANNOT be here if it's unoccupied.
I can enlighten further if you wish, using scripture. I do not put forth things that cannot be proved by scripture.
So far, you've had an obvious track record of doing JUST THAT!
As I study further in His Word to disprove the way of man, I find your argument will not hold water. Look at I Kings 2:12, ”Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.” Whose kingdom is here greatly established? Solomon’s, and not David’s.
How silly! David was Solomon's father; DAVID built the kingdom under God's direction; Solomon inherited what God through David had built.
That kingdom ended with Zedekiah, but David’s continues, but not realized.
Then you're calling GOD a LIAR. You're swimming in DANGEROUS WATERS, Bro.
The house of Israel would not accept the One to set upon the throne of Israel. This one of God and of woman was exiled from His rightful place by His people. The Holy Ghost was then also rejected a year later after Pentecost. The throne remains empty for there is no Holy City to place it, and no Temple therein, and Israel has no King. ituttut.
Poppycock.
Somewhere, there is a descendant of David's (and SOLOMON'S) ruling over Israelites, just as God said there'd ALWAYS be. The ONLY promise God reiterates in such manner as He reiterated His promist to David is the promise of the Messiah.
And please read your Bible, 2 Chronicles 7, to see whom GOD said would be David's son through whom He would establish David's throne forever...the SAME SON who would build the temple...the SAME SON to whom God was speaking!
Roby, you are struggling with this as I did for so many years. When I am proven wrong, I admit it. When I saw the truth, I knew God had answered my prayer in this matter. It is no sin to say I now see what His Word says. I wish you could see that what you are saying is Jesus is not the Word that was made flesh, but was just the son of Joseph that came from the line of Solomon, of whom no King can ever occupy the throne.
I hope you will read the Word in II Chronicles 7 near the start of this post. I don’t argue that Solomon built a Temple, but it's just that throne was not ever lasting, as it was “overturned” by Nebuchadnezzar. That is scripture talking and not I. The everlasting throne did not come through the line Solomon. You keep saying so, but you cannot find that in scripture. Someone has been feeding you false information.
You have been shown, and if you do not believe that Mary wasn’t a virgin, and the Son of God had to come through the line of Solomon, then God’s Word means nothing to you.
But surely you believe that Jesus Christ is the only Begotten Son of God, and not fathered by Joseph that came through the line of Solomon. I know you must believe you are saved by Grace, through faith, so you are saved even though you are following a belief of those that try to say the ever lasting throne is of Solomon, and not of David through the line of Nathan. You are putting the emphasis on Solomon, and God speaks of the everlasting throne coming through the line of David, and for it to be everlasting, the seed of David through the line Nathan, Mary must be impregnated by He that is everlasting, and this is the work of the Holy Spirit; not Solomon’s offspring, Joseph. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12