Do you believe in Easter?

[robycop3]

Ituttut,, I don't have time this AM to answer all your ridiculous assertions, but I'll deal with the main ones now.

First, by faith, I BELIEVE GOD, and His word, as written. God told David that He was establishing his dynasty FOREVER, beginning with Solomon. He reiterated His promise to both Solomon, and Jeremiah. When He spoke to Jeremiah, He had already written Coniah off. Remember, both David and Solomon had many sons, and, after Solomon, He was NOT committed to any one of Solomon's sons.

All this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Mary's virginity. Scripture says she was visited by Gabriel, who told her she would be overshadowed by the Holy Spirit to become pregnant with Jesus. This has NOTHING to do with her ancestry except that God had chosen a descendant of David to be the human vessel for Jesus. Remember how often He was called SON OF DAVID by those who knew their Scriptures. Mary was called PARTHENOS, Greek for VIRGIN, several times in NT Scripture. And again, you're 'way off in left field suggesting that ancestry had anything to do with her virginity.

As for David's dynasty...GOD SAID IT WAS FOREVER. I believe GOD, and NOT someone's phony twist of His words. God reminded Jeremiah that this dynasty would NOT be broken, and would culminate with Jesus' taking David's throne until ALL had been accomplished, at which time He would turn it over to His Father so His Father could be all in all. It CANNOT be here if it now has no occupant!

Look at the throne of France. It was ended by the French Revolution. There are still descendants of the royal family alive. Now, if the French decide they want a king again, it would be a NEW throne, as the royal line was broken by the revolution. But I maintain that David's line of RULERS OVER AT LEAST SOME ISRAELITES was NOT broken, as, if it was, then God's words have failed. It may seem improbable, but, same as the earth's rotation being twice disturbed, it's just as true.

I believe it BY FAITH. God wants us ALL to believe by faith, and not BLIND faith. He's given us many signs to prove His existence and His absolute power. The very fact of existence is one...FOR ANYTHING AT ALL TO EXIST, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN AN EVER-EXISTING BEING WITH THE POWER TO CREATE SOMETHING FROM NOTHING! And I've pointed out the clear examples of prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes(the power of Israel, the astronomical increase in travel & knowledge) which you dismiss as happenstance. I believe the other readers know who's right here...GOD! I'm pointing out His Scriptures as He caused them to be written, while you are constantly making up theories which are outside the realm of what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Ituttut,, I don't have time this AM to answer all your ridiculous assertions, but I'll deal with the main ones now.

First, by faith, I BELIEVE GOD, and His word, as written. God told David that He was establishing his dynasty FOREVER, beginning with Solomon. He reiterated His promise to both Solomon, and Jeremiah. When He spoke to Jeremiah, He had already written Coniah off. Remember, both David and Solomon had many sons, and, after Solomon, He was NOT committed to any one of Solomon's sons.

Coniah was before Zedekiah. No king has sat on the throne since Zedekiah. You insist that God is wrong in this matter. Please show Him where He is wrong. The throne established forever was made possible by Mary who is of the seed of Nathan, and Mary ”…the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” The lineage is from David through Nathan to Mary, and the Word was made flesh. The Line from Solomon had nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. Jesus is not yet seated on that throne, and Zedekiah was the last of the kings on the throne of any Hebrew coming through Jacob.

All this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Mary's virginity. Scripture says she was visited by Gabriel, who told her she would be overshadowed by the Holy Spirit to become pregnant with Jesus. This has NOTHING to do with her ancestry except that God had chosen a descendant of David to be the human vessel for Jesus. Remember how often He was called SON OF DAVID by those who knew their Scriptures. Mary was called PARTHENOS, Greek for VIRGIN, several times in NT Scripture. And again, you're 'way off in left field suggesting that ancestry had anything to do with her virginity.

I know she was a virgin, and what we are discussing proves this, but you are the one saying you believe she is a virgin, yet no she couldn’t be because you say one of Solomon’s sons is the Father of Jesus.

You’re in the forest all tangled up in words, and missing the message of how it was possible for Mary to be a virgin, becoming pregnant, yet not knowing any man. If the throne was to come through Solomon, Mary would have had to “known a man” to produce a man through Solomon’s line. Please look at your above, and you are saying the exact same thing that I am, yet you keep trying your level best to prove otherwise.

You are saying that Jesus came through the line of Solomon. You have not yet seen the error of your belief in this matter. If Jesus came through David’s son Solomon, then that can only mean that the seed that produced Jesus came from Joseph. Scripture proves you wrong as “the power of the Highest” overshadowed Mary, the vessel that carried Jesus to birth. Solomon had nothing to do with it. It was the seed through Nathan that produced the necessary receptacle for the Word of God to be called Jesus, the Messiah making possible the “everlasting throne”.

As for David's dynasty...GOD SAID IT WAS FOREVER. I believe GOD, and NOT someone's phony twist of His words. God reminded Jeremiah that this dynasty would NOT be broken, and would culminate with Jesus' taking David's throne until ALL had been accomplished, at which time He would turn it over to His Father so His Father could be all in all. It CANNOT be here if it now has no occupant!

I believe just as you that the everlasting throne will come by the way of the seed of David. I believe that just as you, but the seed did not come by way of Solomon.

We know who will occupy the everlasting throne for no longer is a secret, but the Kings people have exiled Messiah to heaven, where He awaits to occupy. Scripture says today there is no difference in the sight of God of Jew or Gentile. No throne, and no king, of Israel today. No Temple, so no throne, for the throne must be in Jerusalem, and the City will be the Holy City, which today it is not.

Look at the throne of France. It was ended by the French Revolution. There are still descendants of the royal family alive. Now, if the French decide they want a king again, it would be a NEW throne, as the royal line was broken by the revolution. But I maintain that David's line of RULERS OVER AT LEAST SOME ISRAELITES was NOT broken, as, if it was, then God's words have failed. It may seem improbable, but, same as the earth's rotation being twice disturbed, it's just as true.

There are still descendants of David, but they are not recognized today just as those of the throne of France. There is no King, and there is no Throne. So it is the same thing isn’t it? If you contend the throne of the King of the Jew still exists today, then doesn’t the throne of France have as much right to exist. You say the throne and the king of Israel is in Europe, then perhaps the throne and the king of France is now in Jerusalem. Maybe if they just quite hiding out and switch places, the problem will be solved. You make a silly analogy.

I believe it BY FAITH. God wants us ALL to believe by faith, and not BLIND faith. He's given us many signs to prove His existence and His absolute power. The very fact of existence is one...FOR ANYTHING AT ALL TO EXIST, THERE MUST HAVE BEEN AN EVER-EXISTING BEING WITH THE POWER TO CREATE SOMETHING FROM NOTHING! And I've pointed out the clear examples of prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes(the power of Israel, the astronomical increase in travel & knowledge) which you dismiss as happenstance. I believe the other readers know who's right here...GOD! I'm pointing out His Scriptures as He caused them to be written, while you are constantly making up theories which are outside the realm of what the Scriptures I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him. actually say.

You are trying to come as a Jew to go marching into the Kingdom of God, which means you miss the rapture, as those of the tribulation will enter into the kingdom of God. You show this as you are coming by faith. All today that are in the Body of Christ and that will be raptured into Christ’s kingdom of God must come through faith. That is, if we believe Christ from heaven.

As we’ve studied, I did so hope you could see plainly His Word in this matter.

I thought you were making headway for when you started you were big on “overturn, overturn, and overturn”. Ezekiel 21:27, ”I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.” I believed you may have dropped this verse understanding until the “everlasting throne”, no throne but one to come, and it will be overturned in Tribulation. Two have already been “overturned”, with one to go. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

[robycop3]

Rather than answer EVERY little point, Ituttut, I'll try to summarize all this....

We have a genealogy in Matthew for Joseph. The genealogy in Luke 3 is for MARY...According to Jewish usage(so a rabbi tells me) a woman with no brothers has her families' genealogy till she marries, then it assumes her husband's name. Thus, Mary's line in Luke bears Joseph's name.

Joseph was descended from Jeconiah, whose descendants GOD DQd from being kings of Israel. However, he was still descended from David. Mary's line, after the time of Zedekiah, was eligible for the throne because it also was from David. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been eligible to have borne JESUS, who will occupy David's throne upon His return.

As for Solomon...GOD made the throne CONDITIONAL for him....He said He'd establish Solomon's throne forever IF HE DIDN'T SIN...TO-WIT:

1 KINGS 9:4Now if you walk before Me as your father David walked, in integrity of heart and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded you, and if you keep My statutes and My judgments, 5then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, as I promised David your father, saying, "You shall not fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.' 6But if you or your sons at all turn from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, 7then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight. Israel will be a proverb and a byword among all peoples.

AT NO TIME does God say He will end DAVID'S throne. His promise to David was UNCONDITIONAL. But it wasn't unconditional for SOLOMON. We know the story from then on out...Solomon and most of his royal descendants sinned, till God finally did what He said, allowing Judah to become captive and the Temple to be looted & destroyed.


But again...GOD DID NOT END DAVID'S DYNASTY! His promise to David was UNCONDITIONAL! And He had just reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, almost certainly as a reminder that, although Solomon's line was scrapped, DAVID'S line was NOT! Thus, we have MARY eligible to bear JESUS as His earthly mother, and JOSEPH, eligible by his descent from David and his own righteousness, to be His surrogate father, or more accurately in English, His ADOPTIVE DAD.

And JESUS will occupy an EXISTING THRONE. I believe by empirical evidence that God caused earth's rotation to be disturbed in the times of Joshua & Hezekiah, and I believe by FAITH that David's throne exists, and is occupied by one of his descendants.

Jeremiah 33:19And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 20"Thus says the LORD: "If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

In case you think God's referring only to JESUS...

Jeremiah 33:25"Thus says the LORD: "If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers(Plural) over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them."'

Plainly, David's throne was to be CONTINUOUS! If there was no one occupying it by ruling over some Israelis somewhere(NOT NECESSARILY JEWS!) then God's word has failed. That throne couldn't exist if no one was actually ruling from it, regardless of where it is or what it's now called. Again, I believe BY FAITH that it DOES exist, & is occupied because that's what Scripture says. I have indicated the British throne is a possibility, but that's not set in stone to me. But the fact that David's throne exists & is occupied IS set in stone.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Rather than answer EVERY little point, Ituttut, I'll try to summarize all this....

We have a genealogy in Matthew for Joseph. The genealogy in Luke 3 is for MARY...According to Jewish usage(so a rabbi tells me) a woman with no brothers has her families' genealogy till she marries, then it assumes her husband's name. Thus, Mary's line in Luke bears Joseph's name.

Hello again robycop3. It took me quite awhile to get this subject we have been studying through my head, but the time was well spent, knowing this subject removes what many believe is a contradiction in His Word.

Rabbi’s, I find will tell you things in order to try and disprove that Jesus is the Anointed One. Of course they know much more of many things of their people, than me a Gentile, but not when it comes to knowing Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. They will try to “overturn”, but it is God that “overturned”.

When we go strictly by scripture, dividing His Word, we see that it was an angel of God that gave Jesus His name. What was Adams last name, David, Solomon, or Nathan’s? The genealogies in Matthew and Luke list only a first name. Jesus was known as Jesus of Nazareth. This is the way from the beginning, that people were known. The Word took on the name of a man, and it was Jesus the only begotten Son of God, and He was not the son of Joseph. However for the Word to be correct to the world during the time of Jesus, until it became know otherwise, Jesus was called the son of the carpenter, which would be Joseph.


Joseph was descended from Jeconiah, whose descendants GOD DQd from being kings of Israel. However, he was still descended from David. Mary's line, after the time of Zedekiah, was eligible for the throne because it also was from David. Otherwise, she wouldn't have been eligible to have borne JESUS, who will occupy David's throne upon His return.

Yes, and I agree as we have studied from whom Joseph was descended, proving Jesus could not be from the seed of Solomon. We both have said from the start that Christ is of the seed of David, and scripture shows Mary is of the seed of Nathan one of David’s sons, and God chose the seed of Nathan to born His only begotten Son. So I believe you agree with His Word that Mary is of the Seed of David, and God is the father of Jesus of Nazareth. Also we see that from the seed of David, we find Joseph, the father figure of Jesus coming through the seed of Solomon.

As for Solomon...GOD made the throne CONDITIONAL for him....He said He'd establish Solomon's throne forever IF HE DIDN'T SIN...TO-WIT:

1 KINGS 9:4Now if you walk before Me as your father David walked, in integrity of heart and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded you, and if you keep My statutes and My judgments, 5then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, as I promised David your father, saying, "You shall not fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.' 6But if you or your sons at all turn from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, 7then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight. Israel will be a proverb and a byword among all peoples.

Yes, I remember pointing this out to you in my post of April 23. You may feel free to use these in conversation with others, as God’s Word, and interpretation is free.

AT NO TIME does God say He will end DAVID'S throne. His promise to David was UNCONDITIONAL. But it wasn't unconditional for SOLOMON. We know the story from then on out...Solomon and most of his royal descendants sinned, till God finally did what He said, allowing Judah to become captive and the Temple to be looted & destroyed.

As I have said from the beginning, the seed came from Nathan, and Nathan is of the seed of David.


But again...GOD DID NOT END DAVID'S DYNASTY! His promise to David was UNCONDITIONAL! And He had just reiterated that promise to Jeremiah, almost certainly as a reminder that, although Solomon's line was scrapped, DAVID'S line was NOT! Thus, we have MARY eligible to bear JESUS as His earthly mother, and JOSEPH, eligible by his descent from David and his own righteousness, to be His surrogate father, or more accurately in English, His ADOPTIVE DAD.

I’m so happy to now see you are beginning to understand what I have been telling you from the beginning. I see you are even using some of my terms to show Joseph is not the father of Jesus.

And JESUS will occupy an EXISTING THRONE. I believe by empirical evidence that God caused earth's rotation to be disturbed in the times of Joshua & Hezekiah, and I believe by FAITH that David's throne exists, and is occupied by one of his descendants.

Jeremiah 33:19And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 20"Thus says the LORD: "If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.

In case you think God's referring only to JESUS...

Jeremiah 33:25"Thus says the LORD: "If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers(Plural) over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them."'

I have never disagreed with any scripture that you have put forth, or that I have put forth.

Plainly, David's throne was to be CONTINUOUS! If there was no one occupying it by ruling over some Israelis somewhere(NOT NECESSARILY JEWS!) then God's word has failed. That throne couldn't exist if no one was actually ruling from it, regardless of where it is or what it's now called. Again, I believe BY FAITH that it DOES exist, & is occupied because that's what Scripture says. I have indicated the British throne is a possibility, but that's not set in stone to me. But the fact that David's throne exists & is occupied IS set in stone.

David’s throne is continuous, and I have never said otherwise. It was continuous through Nathan to Jesus.The throne belongs to Jesus, and it is His, and He will be the only one to occupy the everlasting throne.

The seed or line from David to Jesus was continuous, and not some throne. It is Christ’s throne that will be established forever according to His Word. ”And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12. He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.13. I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:14. But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore", I Chronicles 17:11-14 Christian faith, ituttut

 

[robycop3]

We agree, except for one thing: DAVID'S THRONE HAS BEEN OCCUPIED CONTINUOUSLY since God made His promise to David. Jesus has not yet occupied it. In parables, He portrayed Himself as a nobleman who undertook a journey to RECEIVE His kingdom. He was not officially King UNTIL HE RETURNED. But His kingdom was waiting for Him.(Luke 19:11-28)

We see from Jesus'own words that He was not the King when He returned to heaven after His resurrection, but when He returns, He WILL be King, with all power.

And when God reiterated His promise to David in His words to Jeremiah, He was reminding Jerry and all who read what he had Baruch to write, that He was NOT ending David's throne, nor was He placing it "on hiatus" to await Jesus. He said, "rulers", not singular "ruler"...and this was during the reign of Zedekiah.

I know this seems improbable, but, less than 100 years ago, so did the existence of a sovereign Jewish nation. Nowhere does God limit the throne to a man sitting as king over Israelis in Jerusalem. And there was one queen, Athaliah:

2 Kings 8:16Now in the fifth year of Joram the son of Ahab, king of Israel, Jehoshaphat having been king of Judah, Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat began to reign as king of Judah. 17He was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem. 18And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, just as the house of Ahab had done, for the daughter of Ahab was his wife;(This was Athaliah) and he did evil in the sight of the LORD. 19Yet the LORD would not destroy Judah, for the sake of His servant David, as He promised him to give a lamp to him and his sons forever.

Athaliah had come into the royal line of Judah by marriage and was thus considered part of it, same as her grandson Joash, who succeeded her.

But I'm getting off the subject, which is, that DAVID'S THRONE IS ETERNAL AND UNBROKEN IN ITS GENERATIONS. Again, I know it sounds improbable, but just ask any elderly Christian how certain the prospects of a sovereign Jewish nation seemed, by human reckoning, before WWII. Now, why do I believe this throne has been continually occupied since David's time? BECAUSE GOD SAID SO! I have full, complete FAITH that he's doing exactly as He said! Nowhere in Scripture does He limit the throne to Jerusalem, to only the Jews, or even to the titles "king" or "queen". After all, Zedekiah was only a vassal, appointed by Nebuchadnezzar, but he ruled over the "nuts & bolts" of everyday Jewish life, and they called him "king".

The office could now be called, Prime Minister, or Chief, or President, or any number of terms for de-facto ruler. And let's not forget that MOST OF THE PEOPLE OF OLD ISRAEL WERE NOT JEWS! the Jews were the only ones whom God allowed to preserve their national identity. Whether WE know whom the others are or not, GOD KNOWS, and so will we in God's appointed time to restore all Israel. Improbable-sounding or not, IT WILL HAPPEN; God has SAID it!

To summarize: God said DAVID'S DYNASTY IS ETERNAL; God said his line would be unbroken; He NEVER said the throne would be "on hold"; He has given us examples in Scripture of how He has kept His promise by allowing evil kings and one evil queen of David's dynasty to rule & for their progeny to succeed them. He NEVER said that if David's descendants sinned, that He would suspend the continuation of the dynasty until Jesus came...He said that He would remove them from His sight for awhile, which they were, & that the Temple would be destroyed, which it was.

I don't know for sure where David's throne is right now, but I DO propose the British throne as a possible candidate, given its long history from Ireland to Scotland to England. DAVID'S THRONE IS HERE, AND IS OCCUPIED, NOW! Thus saith the LORD, and I BELIEVE Him.

 

[robycop3]

Sorry, but i left out some things in my above post, which I suddenly remembered while looking up Scriptures for other things. Without further ado:

Psalm 89:3"I have made a covenant with My chosen,
I have sworn to My servant David:
4"Your seed I will establish forever,
And build up your throne to all generations."'Selah

The "Selah" here is very important!

From that same Psalm:

30"If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
31If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
32Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
33Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
34My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

This is more proof that God has established David's dynasty FOREVER, IN ALL GENERATIONS, without any hiatus.

I would recommend to everyone that you read ALL of Psalm 89 to see the full context of the verses quoted above.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by robycop3:
We agree, except for one thing: DAVID'S THRONE HAS BEEN OCCUPIED CONTINUOUSLY since God made His promise to David. Jesus has not yet occupied it. In parables, He portrayed Himself as a nobleman who undertook a journey to RECEIVE His kingdom. He was not officially King UNTIL HE RETURNED. But His kingdom was waiting for Him.(Luke 19:11-28)

We see from Jesus'own words that He was not the King when He returned to heaven after His resurrection, but when He returns, He WILL be King, with all power.

Agree, as the throne awaits.

And when God reiterated His promise to David in His words to Jeremiah, He was reminding Jerry and all who read what he had Baruch to write, that He was NOT ending David's throne, nor was He placing it "on hiatus" to await Jesus. He said, "rulers", not singular "ruler"...and this was during the reign of Zedekiah.

I know this seems improbable, but, less than 100 years ago, so did the existence of a sovereign Jewish nation. Nowhere does God limit the throne to a man sitting as king over Israelis in Jerusalem. And there was one queen, Athaliah:

2 Kings 8:16Now in the fifth year of Joram the son of Ahab, king of Israel, Jehoshaphat having been king of Judah, Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat began to reign as king of Judah. 17He was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem. 18And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, just as the house of Ahab had done, for the daughter of Ahab was his wife;(This was Athaliah) and he did evil in the sight of the LORD. 19Yet the LORD would not destroy Judah, for the sake of His servant David, as He promised him to give a lamp to him and his sons forever.

Athaliah had come into the royal line of Judah by marriage and was thus considered part of it, same as her grandson Joash, who succeeded her.

But I'm getting off the subject, which is, that DAVID'S THRONE IS ETERNAL AND UNBROKEN IN ITS GENERATIONS. Again, I know it sounds improbable, but just ask any elderly Christian how certain the prospects of a sovereign Jewish nation seemed, by human reckoning, before WWII. Now, why do I believe this throne has been continually occupied since David's time? BECAUSE GOD SAID SO! I have full, complete FAITH that he's doing exactly as He said! Nowhere in Scripture does He limit the throne to Jerusalem, to only the Jews, or even to the titles "king" or "queen". After all, Zedekiah was only a vassal, appointed by Nebuchadnezzar, but he ruled over the "nuts & bolts" of everyday Jewish life, and they called him "king".

The office could now be called, Prime Minister, or Chief, or President, or any number of terms for de-facto ruler. And let's not forget that MOST OF THE PEOPLE OF OLD ISRAEL WERE NOT JEWS! the Jews were the only ones whom God allowed to preserve their national identity. Whether WE know whom the others are or not, GOD KNOWS, and so will we in God's appointed time to restore all Israel. Improbable-sounding or not, IT WILL HAPPEN; God has SAID it!

To summarize: God said DAVID'S DYNASTY IS ETERNAL; God said his line would be unbroken; He NEVER said the throne would be "on hold"; He has given us examples in Scripture of how He has kept His promise by allowing evil kings and one evil queen of David's dynasty to rule & for their progeny to succeed them. He NEVER said that if David's descendants sinned, that He would suspend the continuation of the dynasty until Jesus came...He said that He would remove them from His sight for awhile, which they were, & that the Temple would be destroyed, which it was.

I don't know for sure where David's throne is right now, but I DO propose the British throne as a possible candidate, given its long history from Ireland to Scotland to England. DAVID'S THRONE IS HERE, AND IS OCCUPIED, NOW! Thus saith the LORD, and I BELIEVE Him.

If you wish. I don’t see it that way. I Kings 11:32, ”And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: 32. (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel”

God says Jerusalem is the only City of all the tribes of Israel. I Kings 15:4, ”Nevertheless for David's sake did the Lord his God give him a lamp in Jerusalem, to set up his son after him, and to establish Jerusalem:” Christian faith, ituttut

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Sorry, but i left out some things in my above post, which I suddenly remembered while looking up Scriptures for other things. Without further ado:

Psalm 89:3"I have made a covenant with My chosen,
I have sworn to My servant David:
4"Your seed I will establish forever,
And build up your throne to all generations."'Selah

Add verse 2 so we can make sense of 3 and 4. ”For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.”

Verse 3.God says He has made covenant with His chosen, His Son, Jesus Christ, and promised this to David.

Verse 4. God will establish David’s seed forever. What we see is Jesus Christ, who came through the seed of Nathan, David’s son.

And David’s throne is built up to all generations, by Jesus Christ, referred to in Verse 2, “And build up your throne to all generations.”


The "Selah" here is very important!

Yes I believe so too. It means a silence, or an interrupt, as verse 1 indicates this is a song.

From that same Psalm:

30"If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
31If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
32Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
33Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
34My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

This is more proof that God has established David's dynasty FOREVER, IN ALL GENERATIONS, without any hiatus.

Match your 33 & 34 above with my inclusion of verse 2 at the first. Jesus Christ’s faithfulness will not fail, even though David’s sons left God’s law, did not walk upright, broke statues, and didn’t keep the commandments. It is God's Son that is established forever.

I would recommend to everyone that you read ALL of Psalm 89 to see the full context of the verses quoted above.

Agree, and we all should believe both all of the New Testament, as all of the Old Testament, for there is more than this one facet of God. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[robycop3]

lemme briefly remind everyone that God said,"rukerS" to jeremiah and to david He said, "If they SIN..." God knew, of course, that they WOULD sin and Jesus WOULDN'T, so He meant exactly what he said...UNTO ALL GENERATIONS.

Even if it were true that Jesus assumed the throne at His first coming, there's still a gap from Zedekiah to Jesus of over 600 years. And since GOD had said, "unto ALL generations", there HAD to have been a descendant of David's on earth ruling over earthly, mortal, literal Israelis.

By Jesus' own words in His parables, He did NOT depart earth as King, but He will come back as King. Thus, the throne is still here, occupied by a descendant of David, ruling over Israelis. The title could be something other than a royal one, and the people may not be called Israelis. but GOD KNOWS WHO THEY ARE, whether WE do or not. I believe His Scriptures LITERALLY, AND THUS WHEN hE SAYS "UNTO all GENERATIONS, I believe JUST THAT, w/o compromise. According to literal translation of Ezekiel 21:25-27, He did NOT end the throne; He CHANGED it. Again, had He ended it, how could He OVERTURN it 3 times?

Again, just because it appears improbable doesn't mean it didn't happen. "With GOD, ALL things are possible", especially if He SAID it's gonna happen.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by robycop3:
lemme briefly remind everyone that God said,"rukerS" to jeremiah and to david He said, "If they SIN..." God knew, of course, that they WOULD sin and Jesus WOULDN'T, so He meant exactly what he said...UNTO ALL GENERATIONS.

Amen! For those who read the writings of Paul, they can also help us to understand the Word of God for us today. Ephesians 3:21, ”unto him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all generations for ever and ever. Amen.”

Even if it were true that Jesus assumed the throne at His first coming, there's still a gap from Zedekiah to Jesus of over 600 years. And since GOD had said, "unto ALL generations", there HAD to have been a descendant of David's on earth ruling over earthly, mortal, literal Israelis.

Jeremiah 17:24-27, ”And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith Jehovah, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but to hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein; 25. then shall there enter in by the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and this city shall remain for ever. 26. And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places round about Jerusalem, and from the land of Benjamin, and from the lowland, and from the hill-country, and from the South, bringing burnt-offerings, and sacrifices, and meal-offerings, and frankincense, and bringing sacrifices of thanksgiving, unto the house of Jehovah. 27. But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden and enter in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” This seems quite clear to me, no King sat on the throne of David after Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem.

The throne can only be where the Bride is, and that is Jerusalem. Israel was exiled to Babylon, and Israel exiled Jesus Christ to heaven. The Word, the Son of God, Jesus Christ transcends all time, and will rule over generations, including the generation of Abraham, David, Jeremiah, Amos, Malachi, and other generation/s. Isaiah 9:6-7”For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7. Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.” All of the resurrected generation’s are represented here. Jesus Christ’s rule over the earth is literal, and it is on the throne of David.

By Jesus' own words in His parables, He did NOT depart earth as King, but He will come back as King. Thus, the throne is still here, occupied by a descendant of David, ruling over Israelis. The title could be something other than a royal one, and the people may not be called Israelis. but GOD KNOWS WHO THEY ARE, whether WE do or not. I believe His Scriptures LITERALLY, AND THUS WHEN hE SAYS "UNTO all GENERATIONS, I believe JUST THAT, w/o compromise. According to literal translation of Ezekiel 21:25-27, He did NOT end the throne; He CHANGED it. Again, had He ended it, how could He OVERTURN it 3 times?

Where was the King, and where was the throne when Jesus was here? I believe Jesus would have known and at least talked with him. It is Christ Jesus that will sit on the throne of David, in Jerusalem, and all generations will be there, as they will be resurrected.

God overturned by Nebuchadnezzar, overturned again in 70 A.D., and will again overturn in the tribulation when there is a temple, and a throne.

Again, just because it appears improbable doesn't mean it didn't happen. "With GOD, ALL things are possible", especially if He SAID it's gonna happen.

How is it gonna' happen? Jesus had no offspring. The line for the King of Israel stopped with Jesus Christ. The half brothers of Jesus cannot sit upon the throne, as no king can come from the loins of Joseph. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[robycop3]

Ituttut: But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden and enter in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” This seems quite clear to me, no King sat on the throne of David after Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem.

No matter how clear it APPEARS, God made an unconditional promise to David, which He reiterated to Jeremiah. Again, God made that STRONG reiteration just before Zedekiah was removed. I'm certain God did this to remind the Jews of that day as well as us that HIS PROMISE TO DAVID STILL STANDS, and just because neither Scripture nor secular history doesn't identify the occupants of David's throne after Zedekiah doesn't mean it ceased to exist. Remember, God said to Ezekiel that it WOULDN'T BE THE SAME, but He didn't specify exactly HOW He was gonna change it. But in order to keep His promise, there was a descendant of David's ruling Israelites somewhere.

The throne can only be where the Bride is, and that is Jerusalem.

The Bride is the Christian Church. and it certainly isn't only in Jerusalem. Nor did Jesus preach only in Jerusalem. But J WILL BE the capitol of Jesus' kingdom when He returns to take over the throne. He will move it from wherever it is to J.


Israel was exiled to Babylon, and Israel exiled Jesus Christ to heaven.

No, Israel did NOT exile Jesus whatsoever. He returned to heaven according to a long-established plan, and of His own volition after He completed what he came to do. And not all Israel was exiled to babylon, but only the majority of the Jews. Just as all Ohioans are Americans but not all Americans are Ohioans, all Jews are Israelis but not all Israelis are Jews. I believe this has you confused, as you seem to believe David's throne must be over Jews only. In His reiteration of His promise, God told Jeremiah, as found in the KJV:

Jeremiah 33:25Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

How much plainer could God have been? And note that He said, "rulerS". You may check with any Hebrew expert to see this is correct. Remember, this was during Zed's rule, so God certainly caused other descendants of David to rule over Israelis somewhere before Zed was removed, and transferred the ruling line to one of them.

That is what GOD said, and not an opinion...that there would ALWAYS be a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis. And God said it very plainly. There's no other valid option but to take God exactly at His word.


The Word, the Son of God, Jesus Christ transcends all time, and will rule over generations, including the generation of Abraham, David, Jeremiah, Amos, Malachi, and other generation/s.

But in the meanwhile there are David's mortal descendants ruling over mortal Israelis right now on earth. Thus saith the Lord to Nathan, David, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

Isaiah 9:6-7”For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7. Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.”

But has He done it yet? Newp! He WILL do it when He returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.


All of the resurrected generation’s are represented here. Jesus Christ’s rule over the earth is literal, and it is on the throne of David.

Now you're getting a little somewhere. That throne is still right here on earth somewhere, currently occupied, and will continue to be occupied by a descendant of David's until his ULTIMATE descendant, JESUS CHRIST, who is both David's root and offspring, returns to take it over.

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Ituttut: But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden and enter in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” This seems quite clear to me, no King sat on the throne of David after Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem.

No matter how clear it APPEARS, God made an unconditional promise to David, which He reiterated to Jeremiah. Again, God made that STRONG reiteration just before Zedekiah was removed. I'm certain God did this to remind the Jews of that day as well as us that HIS PROMISE TO DAVID STILL STANDS, and just because neither Scripture nor secular history doesn't identify the occupants of David's throne after Zedekiah doesn't mean it ceased to exist. Remember, God said to Ezekiel that it WOULDN'T BE THE SAME, but He didn't specify exactly HOW He was gonna change it. But in order to keep His promise, there was a descendant of David's ruling Israelites somewhere.

Of course the promise to David still stands. Jesus Christ is the proof of that.

God rules over His nation, and keeps up with them, but His Word does not reveal that one has ruled since Zedekiah on this earth.

ituttut: The throne can only be where the Bride is, and that is Jerusalem.

The Bride is the Christian Church. and it certainly isn't only in Jerusalem. Nor did Jesus preach only in Jerusalem. But J WILL BE the capitol of Jesus' kingdom when He returns to take over the throne. He will move it from wherever it is to J.

That is your opinion for nowhere can you produce scripture saying the Christian church is the Bride of Christ. If we are already in Christ, how is it that possible? Is not the Bride Jerusalem of Israel? Isaiah 1, Revelation 21:2; 9-10.

ituttut: Israel was exiled to Babylon, and Israel exiled Jesus Christ to heaven.

No, Israel did NOT exile Jesus whatsoever. He returned to heaven according to a long-established plan, and of His own volition after He completed what he came to do. And not all Israel was exiled to babylon, but only the majority of the Jews. Just as all Ohioans are Americans but not all Americans are Ohioans, all Jews are Israelis but not all Israelis are Jews. I believe this has you confused, as you seem to believe David's throne must be over Jews only. In His reiteration of His promise, God told Jeremiah, as found in the KJV:

My KJV, as do all other reliable versions, says Israel refused Messiah.

Jeremiah 33:25Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

How much plainer could God have been? And note that He said, "rulerS". You may check with any Hebrew expert to see this is correct. Remember, this was during Zed's rule, so God certainly caused other descendants of David to rule over Israelis somewhere before Zed was removed, and transferred the ruling line to one of them.

That is what GOD said, and not an opinion...that there would ALWAYS be a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis. And God said it very plainly. There's no other valid option but to take God exactly at His word.

Again Zedekiah had no sons while he was king, and he was the last to sit on an earthly throne as king over Judah. And Jesus had no offspring at all, so as Zedekiah did the big if in II Chronicles 7:18-20, no more king or throne, until the end. ”then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel. 19. But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; 20. then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and I will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples.” So you are using a proverb, which some take to be true. It would be true, but Israel did what God said they shouldn’t do, so by the roots God plucked them up out of His land. God of course is the only one that can put that throne back, and when He returns, the throne will be with Him.


ituttut: The Word, the Son of God, Jesus Christ transcends all time, and will rule over generations, including the generation of Abraham, David, Jeremiah, Amos, Malachi, and other generation/s.

But in the meanwhile there are David's mortal descendants ruling over mortal Israelis right now on earth. Thus saith the Lord to Nathan, David, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

See explanation immediately above. God had a stipulation attached that nullified if Israel did not obey God.

Ituttut: Isaiah 9:6-7”For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7. Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.”

But has He done it yet? Newp! He WILL do it when He returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Yes. I see you agree it will be in that dispensation of God when one will again sit upon the throne of David.


ituttut: All of the resurrected generation’s are represented here. Jesus Christ’s rule over the earth is literal, and it is on the throne of David.

Now you're getting a little somewhere. That throne is still right here on earth somewhere, currently occupied, and will continue to be occupied by a descendant of David's until his ULTIMATE descendant, JESUS CHRIST, who is both David's root and offspring, returns to take it over.

But how can you say that, for you just agreed that Quote “Newp! He WILL do it when He returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.” Unquote. And here you are right for that is when David’s throne will be restored, which will be after Jesus' second coming to the earth. Christian faith, ituttut

 

[robycop3]

Ituttut: But how can you say that, for you just agreed that Quote “Newp! He WILL do it when He returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.” Unquote. And here you are right for that is when David’s throne will be restored, which will be after Jesus' second coming to the earth. Christian faith, ituttut

God told David through Nathan(the prophet, not his son) that He was gonna establish David's throne FOREVER, beginning with Solomon. He made a stipulation to SOLOMON, while His promise to DAVID was UNCONDITIONAL, without stipulation. Several times God reminds us through some of His other authors that He allowed such-n-such a sinful king to remain on the throne FOR THE SAKE OF DAVID.

David's throne is still in existence, occupied by someone, ruling over Israelis somewhere. Thus saith the Lord...I merely repeat what HE says in so many words.