Israel will be in view during the 1000 years. They will rule the nations as they were originally intended. As to the sacrifices I can not answer definitvely on that. It "seems" to me that if there are sacrifices during the 1000-year period it would be for a memorial, because Jesus IS THE Sacrifice once and for all. So I see no point in sacrificing the way it used to occur and for the purpose it used to occur.
Again why do you continue with your personal attacks? Do you think it helps to prove your point?
Dr. Stanley and Eternal Security
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Jun 14, 2007.
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John Calvin (1536)
"But a little later there followed the chiliasts, who limited the reign of Christ to a thousand years. Now their fiction is too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation. And the Apocalypse, from which they undoubtedly drew a pretext for their error does not support them. For the number "one thousand" (Rev. 20:4) does not apply to the eternal blessedness of the church but only to the various disturbances that awaited the church, while still toiling on earth."
"For when we apply to it the measure of our own understanding, what can we conceive that is not gross and earthly? So it happens that like beasts our senses attract us to what appeals to our flesh, and we grasp at what is at hand. So we see that the Chialists (i.e. those who believed that Christ would reign on earth for a thousand years) fell into a like error. Jesus intended to banish from the disciples' minds a false impression regarding the earthly kingdom: for that, as He points out in a few words, consists of the preaching of the Gospel. They have no cause therefore to dream of wealth, luxury, power in the world or any other earthly thing when they hear that Christ is reigning when He subdues the world to Himself by the preaching of the Gospel. It follows from this that His reign is spiritual and not after the pattern of this world." - Comm. on Acts -
Thanks for posting more of Calvin's error :).
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If you were to graph it, it would be a dot. An event, such as squeezing the trigger on a gun, would be a little dot. An event, such as building the temple, which took many years, would be a big dot.
But, it's not always past tense. -
One thing I have learned for sure, this discussion has been going on since and before Saint Augustine. -
No. 2 Some still consider this to be an heretical doctrine, including apparently you. That does not necessarily make it one.
Ed -
Ed -
I've now cooled off a bit, and my back is feeling better, so back to the hayfield.
Ed -
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Brother Bob said:Others say there is no tense to the word "aorist".Click to expand...
Here's a Brief Bio of Robertson -
I've never seen a Greek scholar make this claim. I've seen a small hanful of others claim this so they can ignore passages such as Acts 16:31 and apply works (without calling them works) to getting saved.Click to expand...
Hope of Glory; If you were to graph it, it would be a dot. An event, such as squeezing the trigger on a gun, would be a little dot. An event, such as building the temple, which took many years, would be a big dot.Click to expand... -
I suppose you could label me Amillennial, being that I believe the thousand year reign is over.Click to expand...
By the way I'm still waiting on those two Revelation texts that you have not addressed. Are you going to do that? -
I suppose you could label me Amillennial, being that I believe the thousand year reign is over. Brother Bob see again I'm not understanding where you are coming from. Here you state that the 1000-year reign is over, but you keep insisting up and down that Christ is reigning now. So which is it? Is the 1000-year reign over or are we currently in it?
By the way I'm still waiting on those two Revelation texts that you have not addressed. Are you going to do that?__________________Click to expand...
Sorry, you will have to refresh my mind on the two texts. -
The thousand years pertains to the "beheaded souls",Click to expand...
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Sorry, you will have to refresh my mind on the two texts.Click to expand...
Here it is again. Who is the He that overcometh Brother Bob? Who is the He that keepth His works unto the end. When is the end?
When did this person receive the power to rule the nations with Christ? When have the nations been broken to shivers?
Quote Brother Bob:
Also, He will rule with a rod of iron is you either follow the Lord and keep His Commandments or you will suffer His wrath.
So up until the time of the writing of Revelation that wasn't true?
Quote Brother Bob:
He rules with a rod of Iron now and in the end. You either believe or suffer His wrath.
So the United States is currently suffering His wrath? How is that Brother Bob? How is Canada suffering His wrath. How about England? Austrailia? -
Quote Brother Bob:
Also, He will rule with a rod of iron is you either follow the Lord and keep His Commandments or you will suffer His wrath.
So up until the time of the writing of Revelation that wasn't true?
Quote Brother Bob:
He rules with a rod of Iron now and in the end. You either believe or suffer His wrath.
So the United States is currently suffering His wrath? How is that Brother Bob? How is Canada suffering His wrath. How about England? Austrailia?Click to expand...
The thousand years pertains to the "beheaded souls", So what did these beheaded souls reign over? And how did that happen when it talks about these beheaded souls coming out of the great tribulation which hasn't happened yet?
__________________Click to expand...
What did they reign over? They obtain the victory that had been promised them.
Rev 12:5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
Rev 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
J. Jump; This vision was given in a chronological orderClick to expand... -
It is not with Christ, but it is Christ and you will suffer His wrath for nonbelief.Click to expand...
He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;
This is talking about the one that overcomes. The overcomer is going to rule and reign with Christ. So when does this person rule and reign?
I told you it was when Christ died for our sins.Click to expand...
I figure those souls felt pretty good about that time, they were going to receive the white robes, did you know that the "white robes" came from the blood of the Lamb?Click to expand...
You said they obtained something. That's not what the text says. The text said they reigned with Christ. What did Christ and those souls reign over at the time of the cross. You still have a TON of explaining to do because none of this makes an ounce of sense, and I don't think I'm going to be the only person that says as much. -
That simply will not work. Look at the text again.
He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;Click to expand...
Rev 5:9And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
I know it won't work in your theology, for you don't believe He is King and ruling NOW! -
I know it won't work in your theology, for you don't believe He is King and ruling NOW!Click to expand...
Can you tell me when Christ and the overcomers ruled after 50 AD?
And please quit accusing me of not accpeting Christ as King. This is becoming childish and unbecoming on your part. Deal with the text and leave off the personal attacks.
By the way Brother Bob how many times can you lie about a person before you lose "your" salvation? Or do you not think lying is something that can be done by a Christian?
EDIT: Let me just add this as well. The more I read your post the more it doesn't make sense. So if Christ is ruling now how is Satan also ruling? The earth has two rulers at the same time? And if Christ is ruling the nations why is His rule leading to so much turmoil and corruption. Surely if Christ was at the head of the nations governments wouldn't be killing their own people and getting away with it? Would they? Surely nations wouldn't be developing weapons that can destroy the earth 20-plus times over? Would they? Surely if Christ was ruling the nations there wouldn't be corruption in Africa where leaders take aid money and line their pockets? Would there?
Do you really believe Christ is ruling the nations at this time Brother Bob? If so how do you explain all of this being allowed by Perfection? -
26: And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28: And I will give him the morning star.
29: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churchesClick to expand...
1Jo 5:4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith
Rev 1:6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Quote:
J. Jump; This vision was given in a chronological order
By the way Brother Bob how many times can you lie about a person before you lose "your" salvation? Or do you not think lying is something that can be done by a Christian?Click to expand...
EDIT: Let me just add this as well. The more I read your post the more it doesn't make sense. So if Christ is ruling now how is Satan also ruling? The earth has two rulers at the same time? And if Christ is ruling the nations why is His rule leading to so much turmoil and corruption. Surely if Christ was at the head of the nations governments wouldn't be killing their own people and getting away with it? Would they? Surely nations wouldn't be developing weapons that can destroy the earth 20-plus times over? Would they? Surely if Christ was ruling the nations there wouldn't be corruption in Africa where leaders take aid money and line their pockets? Would there?
Do you really believe Christ is ruling the nations at this time Brother Bob? If so how do you explain all of this being allowed by Perfection?Click to expand...
Christ is the King of the Saved, time is coming He will destroy everyone else. If you do not become a part of the Kingdom before death, you will go to a devil's hell.
1Cr 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
You have posted nothing that will stand up to scrutiny. You need to get away from those people who are teaching you such stuff and learn the true doctrine of the Lord.
You admit the thousand year reign has nothing to do with our salvation. Yet you spend your life talking about it. (edit)
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