Paul is addressing a local church in Ephesus. He is not addressing Old Testament saints. They have nothing to do with the local church or any church of any kind. Where do you get that from?
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (Ephesians 2:21)
--The KJV more accurately translates this as framed together. He is describing a building. The apostles and prophets are the foundation. Why? They are the authors of the Bible--NT and OT; the complete Bible. Jesus is the corner stone, the rock of the foundation, without which the foundation cannot stand. The members of the church at Ephesus were the stones of the house that, when fitly framed together, made a building like a holy temple. To be fitly or suitably framed together they had to be Spirit-filled, using their spiritual gifts, united with each other not against each other. This is what Paul is talking about.
As I mentioned, go the historical context. Ephesus was a church founded on his second missionary journey between 49-52 A.D. There were not many churches around the area. The province of Galatia was far inland to the East. Miletus was close by but it is doubtful that there was a church there. He was writing to a church that by all accounts was isolated from others. What do you think the Ephesians thought when Paul was writing to them? Universal? NO! He was writing to them, the believers at Ephesus, their assembly, and they would never think otherwise.
Ecclesiology II - Gentlemen, please continue
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J.D., Jun 3, 2011.
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BTW, do you concede that your belief is mostly absent in history until the last 150 or so years?
As I stated in another thread, new theology is probably not true. I believe your focus on the local church is both new and in error. -
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (Ephesians 2:21)
--The members of the assembly at Ephesus are being referred to here. And the Ephesians would not be thinking of anyone else but themselves. Who do you think they would think of when Paul addressed this letter to them?
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (Ephesians 2:12)
Both Gentile Christians and Jewish Christians are partakers of the same covenant of promise. Before this time the Gentiles were left out of all promises and aliens with God. Now Christ has died. We are one in Christ.
You are the one that is violating principles of hermeneutics.
This is not about Israel.
It is about the church at Ephesus. Those believers are one in Christ no matter what their background was: Jew or Gentile. -
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The above is taken from John Mockett Cramp's "Baptist History," written in 1871. In the last paragraph he makes references to the early church fathers. They referred to churches. The only "Church" that was referred to in their writings was that of the "Romish Church." -
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ituttut said: ↑In time past God spoke directly to people, by massager, and in Vision's. Today I believe He speaks to us through the Bible, and/or various ways such as preaching, teaching what one finds in the Bible.Click to expand...
That sounds like the commission that the Lord gave to the local church; the Paul gave to Timothy, the pastor of the church at Ephesus. It sounds like you have described the purpose of a local church, something that a so-called universal church cannot carry out.
BTW, this thread is about eccesiology (local vs. universal church). If you would like to start a thread on the gospel please do so, but this is not the place for it.
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DHK said: ↑ituttut said: ↑That sounds like the commission that the Lord gave to the local church; the Paul gave to Timothy, the pastor of the church at Ephesus. It sounds like you have described the purpose of a local church, something that a so-called universal church cannot carry out.
BTW, this thread is about eccesiology (local vs. universal church). If you would like to start a thread on the gospel please do so, but this is not the place for it.
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First, I apologize for not being here for about a week, I have been extremely busy with work and stuff. I have not gone through the posts, just wanted to check in.
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DHK said: ↑Is it not more Biblical to say that Christ is coming for his bride?
We have for more references for Christ coming for his bride, and we being the bride of Christ, then we do for the rapture of "the church".Click to expand... -
Tom Butler said: ↑In fact, the number of specific references in the Bible of the rapture of the church is-------zero.Click to expand...
The word "trinity" is a good parallel. The word is NEVER used, but the teaching is plain (except to our oneness Pentecostal friends).
Jesus is coming in the air. Shout, trumpet and catch up His bride
Return TO Father's House for wedding feast and marriage of the Lamb
THEN
Return WITH His bride and the armies of heaven to the Mt of Olives and Jerusalem to rule/reign on earth 1000 years
Final rebellion of satan and nations
Destruction/recreation of planet earth
Judgment
Temporal Kingdom given to the Father for an eternal kingdom
And we live happily ever after.
Feel so sorry for folks who don't know or see the clear teaching.
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