Hebrews 9:27

Ok

You stated the view that God’s knowledge of the future fixes that future and makes no other outcome possible…. is malarkey.

So, you believe just because God knows the future doesn’t mean that future can’t be changed.

If you believe a person can change the future already known by God, you deny the omniscience of God, making that person the master of his own destiny.

peace to you

 

I remembered this passage.

2 Kings 20:1-6 God heals Heziekiel gives him an extra 15 years of life.

So, did God change the future? Or did God, knowing all things, already know the date of his death would be 15 years later?

It is clear that God extended his life by 15 years, based on his plea to God that he had been faithful. Does that mean God changed what He knew to be the day of his death?

I don’t believe God changed what He already knew to be the time of his death, but it is interesting to think about.

peace to you

 

In the OT under Law, you could expect long life and prosperity for obedience. But expect and receive the worst for disobedience. The key is in understanding the elect who were born again would be obedient by nature having faith. And the reprobate would not be obedient by nature.

 

so...you "snip" but others are wrong to do so. Hypocrisy is an interesting thing...

 

Before the foundation of the world the Godhead knew man would rebel and they would redeem.

Ordaining the rebellion (giving an okay to the rebellion) is not authoring the rebellion.

 

...except King Josiah who was entirely obedient yet died in battle at a young age...

 

I said "one could expect" not that it was guaranteed.............

 

We've all seen atheists live long lives (Bertrand Russell) & Christians die young(the student in Columbine HS)

 

Please do not make up views and attribute them to me. Use quotes. Did I say I deny God is all-knowing (omniscience)? Nope.
Did I say God can know contingent future outcomes? Nope

 

Note once again the Calvinist ignores the topic and simply disparages the poster.

 

Look at that...amazingly, no "snip."
It's funny how you call me "the Calvinist" as your crutch requires from you. How painful it will be for you when you meet so very many "calvinists" in heaven...

 

Off topic personal attacks are the stock and trade of Calvinists...

 

Nope. Your history at the BB has been to personally attack others, then claim their response to you is a calvinist ploy attacking you as a victim. It's your escape clause so you don't have to confront God's word and change your self-centered view of God's grace.

 

Material false statements without quotes are the stock and trade of Calvinism...

I am pretty sure all Calvinists lean toward exhaustive determinism, God's knowledge of the future fixes the future and no other outcome is possible. However, that view is malarkey.

What the verse seems to me to be saying is there are no second chances for salvation after we physically die. Judgment is swift and sure, and the lost are condemned already. John 3:18.

OTOH, God is the God of continuing chances as long as we live, therefore repent and believe.

 

In a nutshell,

Calvinism teaches humanity was saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and there is nothing we can do to alter that outcome for ourselves or our loved ones.

This utter corruption of the good news cannot stand the light of day...

 

"Silverhair,

Hello Silverhair,
Thank you for this fine, and important question.
I do not think we have interacted before, so I would like to offer an answer as well as ask you some clarifying questions that might advance the discussion.
In the OP. Salty asked a question that deals with the topic of God's immutability. God who is perfect and Holy in all His attributes has no need to change anything as that would suggest imperfection which is not possible.
To suggest an infinitely Holy God can be the author of sin is also flawed human philosophy, so we can dispense with that kind of defective thought right away;
12 Art thou not from everlasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O Lord, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.

13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

Now, your questions;

Millions of others before us have said this is the teaching of scripture, and I agree with their understanding of scripture....so yes, I say this is the truth of God.

[QUOTE]IF God has decreed, unchangeably everything that happens then how would He not be the author of sin?[/QUOTE]

This question starts with the idea that it is possible to blame God for man's sin, which is scripturally not possible. I believe it also has a wrong idea of God being Righteous and Just. It is the question asked by Paul's imaginary objector in Romans 9;
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

???
How can that even be considered as a possibility?Isa46;


9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

 

Although I'm not sure how that question arises from that verse, yet the principle whereof you enquired has scriptural backing indeed:

Ecc 7:17 Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?

Psa 55:23 But thou, O God, shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction: bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; but I will trust in thee.

Job 15:31 Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompence.
Job 15:32 It shall be accomplished before his time, and his branch shall not be green.

Pro 10:27 The fear of the LORD prolongeth days: but the years of the wicked shall be shortened.

Etc.

I'm surprised in all these posts those verses did not come up.

 

Van,

 

This is a perfect example of man assisting God in salvation via the law. Grace not needed

 

2Ch 35:21 But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that he destroy thee not.
2Ch 35:22 Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo.