Where are you coming up with this nonsense? I’m a solid Christian … are you questioning me on this? If so then you are questioning my salvation.
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I Tim 2:8-14
- Thread starter Reynolds
- Start date
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
Well, you are the one describing 1 Timothy 2 as slavery and subjugation which is evil and is also a slanderous mischaracterization of the passage. You say that these passages don't sit well with you or your wife, and you posted 1 Corinthians 13 in opposition to 1 Timothy 2 as if it disproves male leadership. I think the better question is where are you coming up with this nonsense?
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That’s between me my wife and God. I live by faith not by accusing as you seem to do. It’s probably just because you don’t know me that you accuse me in your slanderous attack mode. But I don’t have to prove to you anything, least of all my belief system. You have called me a liberal… wrong! You have called me unbiblical… again wrong. And this after just meeting me that you jump to conclusions. What am I to think of you?
Your wife objects to being obedient to Scripture and you are fine with that. You actually rationalize it in a way that makes her right and Scripture wrong. Your true colors are really shining through.
So now you are saying Scripture conflicts with itself. To keep one command, you must break another?
Anyone who denies infallibility of Scripture is a Liberal. That is what you have done in every post here.
What you say. Either:
1. Scripture is wrong.
2. Scripture is right and you and your wife openly rebel against it.
There is no logical option 3.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Agreed (though the pain of childbirth will be gone either in the millennial kingdom or eternity)
As will the curse in general.
Go chase yourself
So how do I disobey it… I’m not a woman.
Wrong
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
Asked like a true modern Western man.
Born on the fourth of July
1Ti 2:8-15 (CSB)
"Therefore, I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument. Also, the women are to dress themselves in modest clothing, with decency and good sense, not with elaborate hairstyles, gold, pearls, or expensive apparel, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess to worship God.
A woman is to learn quietly with full submission.
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. But she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with good sense."
1) First question, does Paul not want women to pray, or lift up holy hands, in private or with other women?
2) Does Paul want men to dress like TV Evangelists, silk shirts, Rolex watches, and high priced suits?
3) Paul seems to want those who profess to worship God (man and women) to "adorn" themselves, not with superficial externals, but with good works.
4) Does Paul want men to be non-submissive to God, His Word, or their leaders looking after the flock?
5) When Paul says he does not allow women, should we take that as indicating a command of God?
6) What should we make of the fact Adam was formed first, then women? What about the last shall be first, or Jacob over the older Esau? Adam was not deceived, but volitionally sin, knowing he was not following the will of God. That makes his transgression worse than Eve's. Note we were made sinners, not by Eve being deceived, but by one MAN's transgression.
7) In what manner will women be saved through childbearing (rearing her family)? Certainly not initially, as we are saved by grace through faith, and not works. But during our progressive sanctification, we (men and women) earn rewards through effective ministry, and those potential rewards can be lost, thus this is the aspect of salvation that can be gained by continued faith, love and holiness.
It takes prayer, study and meditation to derive an understanding of this topic.
"Therefore, I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument. Also, the women are to dress themselves in modest clothing, with decency and good sense, not with elaborate hairstyles, gold, pearls, or expensive apparel, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess to worship God.
A woman is to learn quietly with full submission.
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. But she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with good sense."
1) First question, does Paul not want women to pray, or lift up holy hands, in private or with other women?
2) Does Paul want men to dress like TV Evangelists, silk shirts, Rolex watches, and high priced suits?
3) Paul seems to want those who profess to worship God (man and women) to "adorn" themselves, not with superficial externals, but with good works.
4) Does Paul want men to be non-submissive to God, His Word, or their leaders looking after the flock?
5) When Paul says he does not allow women, should we take that as indicating a command of God?
6) What should we make of the fact Adam was formed first, then women? What about the last shall be first, or Jacob over the older Esau? Adam was not deceived, but volitionally sin, knowing he was not following the will of God. That makes his transgression worse than Eve's. Note we were made sinners, not by Eve being deceived, but by one MAN's transgression.
7) In what manner will women be saved through childbearing (rearing her family)? Certainly not initially, as we are saved by grace through faith, and not works. But during our progressive sanctification, we (men and women) earn rewards through effective ministry, and those potential rewards can be lost, thus this is the aspect of salvation that can be gained by continued faith, love and holiness.
It takes prayer, study and meditation to derive an understanding of this topic.
Thank you by the way… I consider that a huge compliment.
George Antonios
Well-Known Member
keyword "modern".
CalTech
Active Member
I agree with you 100%.
I once was under the influence of a woman pastor/prophetess, and some thought "Apostle" in a home fellowship when I was just Born-Again about 2-3 months back in 1978. I was a babe in Christ and ignorant of the Lord's ways, and His Word. At the time I thought that everyone that mentioned the name of Jesus, was truly a Christian. One can read my experience with that "cult" on my blog.
However, while I was with this "Cult" we were given a book written by "Katherine Bushnell" "God's Word to Women" which was written at the turn of the 20th century, but was finally published in cloth covered book form in 1921.
I read the book, and back in the 1990's and when I read how she thought that the Apostle Paul, must have had some bitterness towards women, I was stunned. I threw it into the trash, once the Holy Spirit started to give me understanding, that God's Word is His Word, it changes not. The Holy Spirit made it very clear That women are to submit to her Godly husband, and that women have no God given authority to teach over the Body of Christ, nor have authority over men. As Paul wrote, elderly women were to teach younger women how to be Godly women. Paul gives the reason's why women were not to teach or have any authority is due to women being easily deceived by the Devil, due to the actions of Eve in the Garden.
Her book, one could say was the foundation for the present day rebellion against God's Word and how that is now being carried out by women throughout the world. For she was involved in the "Women's Suffrage" movement, and I discerned a spirit of bitterness in her writings, and her involvement with the "Methodist Holiness movement" can also explain her erroneous understanding of God's Word.
I have come to understand from the Lord, that the Lord's Word is too change "cultural" belief's, and that "cultural belief's" are NOT to change God's Word.
The Lord bless you....
You defend your wife being in rebellion to Scripture. You actually come online and openly defend her rebellion. You are not being the Spiritual head of your household. You are allowing her to be in rebellion, thus you have ignored your Biblical responsibility toward her.
You are either denying infallibility of Scripture, or openly defying it due to gender norms of today's society. Either one makes you a theological liberal.