1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Ifb evangelists

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by evangelist6589, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,557
    Likes Received:
    625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How do you understand the words of Jesus in Luke 13: especially verse 3 where he says "except ye repent you will perish"

    Just curious

    Thanks in advance

    Romans 5:1
     
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    For once I would like to see a post by Evan6589 that does not contain the words "Calvinist", "easy believism" "Way of the Master", WOTM, or "MacArthur".

    To answer the OP: No, you can't work with this person. Don't do it.
     
    #22 InTheLight, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus is saying, "Unless you Jews change your mind about your belief in the Messiah you will perish."

    You're welcome in advance.
     
  4. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    6,898
    Likes Received:
    638
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you mean work with or work on?
     
  5. PreachTony

    PreachTony Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes, Jesus tells people to follow Him, but how can they follow without first believing? The faith and salvation comes first; then works are added to it. That's at least how I've always understood it. After all, how can a newborn believer, someone just taking the first steps into the faith and into their spiritual walk, comprehend their "discipleship" to Christ and His lordship over all creation? They can't. Consider the author's words in Hebrews 5:
    That passage of scripture, to me, indicates a sort of graduated system for believers as they grow in the faith. My experience with supporters of Lordship Salvation is that they would have new converts delving into the strong meat of the word almost immediately after their confession of faith. Perhaps I've just had a string of bad experiences, but each LS-supporter I've met personally seems to hold to a similar ideology concerning salvation and works.

    Just curious, but do you count discipleship as a work? If so, we cannot say discipleship is a requirement of salvation and still say the Bible is inerrant, as for that to be the case then Paul was wrong in his writing to those at Ephesus, as he stated that we are saved by grace through faith, and we are not saved of works, as being saved by works would allow men to boast of themselves.
     
  6. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,557
    Likes Received:
    625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you are saying that repentance IS necessary? Correct?
     
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, that is correct. Repentance means "a change of mind". It is necessary. It was first preached to the Jews and later applied to the Gentiles.

    I would like to point out the definition of "repent" is not 'turn from your sin' or 'feel sorry for you sin', though turning from your sin and feeling sorry about it is a direct consequence of 'changing your mind' about Jesus.
     
  8. gigabyte71

    gigabyte71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^^^^ This, and I would include one that doesn't include a 'book I am reading now' statement.
     
  9. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,285
    Likes Received:
    163
    Faith:
    Baptist

    You have as much sense as a goat! I include books because they help me understand scripture and theology better.

    A previous poster that compared a Mac book to a Catholic book also showed little sense. Catholic theology is not backed by scripture and the books they write have a mix of it and tradition that goes against scripture. MacArthur is very well versed in scripture.
     
  10. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    130
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I would like to make a few comments about repentance, Repentance absolutely is necessary, there are many who will not get saved because they know that getting saved will change them, and many of them do not want to be saved out of sin, I have met people who told me they believed Christ died for them, they believed they were a sinner, but they would not trust in Christ, because they love their sin too much. So in this situation, this person must repent of their sin and have a changed of mind and heart about sin in general, usually the king pin sins in their lives.

    I believe the Lord has really given me clarity on this issue of repentance.

    When I got saved, There were a lot of things in my life that I did not even know were sinful, so when I got saved it wasn't like I made a conscious decision to turn away from all my sins, it was more of like I just knew I was wicked and I "believed on the Lord Jesus Christ"

    Lordship Salvation is heretical, because every day I realize more and more just how wicked I truly am and God shows me every day areas where he is in fact not Lord in my life, and any honest believing Christian who takes any time to evaluate themselves will agree with this.

    In Acts 17:31 Paul talks about how God commands all men everywhere to repent, this is in the context of him speaking to idol worshipers, This is because in order to truly trust in Jesus Christ and him alone, you must turn from your idols that you are trusting in, this is also the same thing I believe Paul is talking about in 1 Th 1:9.

    Peter says in Acts 2 to repent, but he's talking in context to the Jews who have rejected Jesus, so I believe he's commanding them to repent of their unbelief of the Messiah and their rejection of him, a almost identical event takes place in Acts 3 with another command to repent.

    Then of course you have the example in Luke 13:3 to repent, if you look at the context, it's very obvious that what Jesus is commanding to repent of is self righteousness, which prevents a person from truly believing on Christ.

    So then we come to the question, must a person repent of sin to be saved? well it all comes down to what you mean repent of sin, if you mean that in order to be saved a person must be willing to go home, and pour out all their alcohol, throw away their pornography, and stop sinning, and this is what you mean when you say "turn from your sins" than you are preaching heresy and you have placed the focus on a self works. I believe repenting of sin is simply that if your love of sin is preventing you from placing your faith in Christ, because you know he will changed you and you don't want to be changed, than yes you must repent of your sin because it is preventing you from trusting in Christ.

    For example, Jesus said it is better to pluck your eye out, then to be cast into hell with both, Jesus is simply teaching that you need to turn from anything that is preventing you from receiving salvation,

    4Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    If someone loves their life to much to turn to Christ, then they will die and go to hell, so repenting of sin, really is turning from the love of sin which is preventing one to receiving and trust on Christ.

    The problem is many people never study out the context of when the word repent is used, and they often reference something they have heard from someone else like a parrot and they will simply quote something like Luke 13:3 and say "look it says to repent, so you must turn from your sins to be saved". This is dangerous especially to people who go around telling people that they have to turn from their sin to be saved, a lost person cannot stop sinning if they do not have the spirit of God, and when you tell people this you are placing a huge stumbling block in the way of them being saved, and it can often turn into works salvation.

    The word repent, carries the idea of a change of mind, heart, and attitude. The question you must always ask is, when the bible uses the word repent, what is it saying there must be a change of mind, heart, and attitude about?I challenge you people who hold such strong views about repentance to actually go and look at the context of how the word is used and do a biblical study on it., if you will go to these passages I have mentioned, and look at the context of where repenting is being commanded I know that the Lord will give you clarity if you seek it. Stop reading books on repentance, stop listening to preacher, go straight to the texts and passages that use the word, and it will help you understand the doctrine of repentance greatly.
     
    #30 Jordan Kurecki, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  11. gigabyte71

    gigabyte71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think you missed the point. Using a book as proof that something is true is absurd. Use a Biblical reference for why something is correct. Maybe if spent some time studying the Bible rather than books, you might have some different ideas.

    It is like the person who goes to church every Sunday for their entire life and says something is true, just because their pastor says it is. I personal, would rather be a Berean than a follower of another preacher.
     
  12. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,720
    Likes Received:
    781
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You have divided “saving” belief from action. I see no distinction.

    Yes.

    Of course, faith in Christ is an action. “Salvation” is not something that we possess – it is a promise from God toward us.

    I agree. We grow in faith.

    Well, that’s a problem with the Lordship Salvation position. However, in my opinion, the biblical position is neither the “free grace” or “Lordship” position. Both assume that “salvation” is a possession and that the point of Jesus being crucified and raised is simply that we will go to heaven when we die. That’s not the gospel Jesus preached – or Paul, for that matter.

    No, it is a lifestyle of actions in the Kingdom of God under the Lordship of Christ.

    You seem to be using the word, “work,” as a synonym for earning something. Works are actions, earning is an attitude. If you are active in the religious realm, thinking you are meriting or earning favor, you are in severe error. If you are active, doing good works for the glory of God and because they are the right thing to do, you are cooperating with God.

    If those false premises were true, then this conclusion would be valid. But since they are not, then the conclusion is not.
     
  13. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    6,898
    Likes Received:
    638
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Books about men's opinions written for profit.
     
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Excellent post, Jordan.
     
  15. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    130
    Faith:
    Baptist
  16. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    130
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lordship Salvation is scary, the other night the Holy Spirit of God came upon me so powerfully, that me and my dear brother in Christ began talking and self examining and weeping, we became so aware of the presence of God that it became obvious to me that there are so many areas where I fall short of the glory of God, and I was reminded that my righteousness is as filthy rags. How anyone who knows themselves and their nature, someone who really knows how wicked they are, could ever go around and preach Lordship Salvation, is beyond me, they are like Pharisees who taught heavy burdens to the people, and did not even bear them themselves.

    What's the difference between teaching complete obedience to the O.T. Law, and teaching complete surrender to the Lordship of Christ in all areas in order to be saved? a person obeying the O.T. Law is submitting to the Lordship of Jehova as his will was revealed at that time, but we know that keeping the O.T. Law doesn't save, and neither does keeping the N.T. Law's that still apply today. what is submitting to the Lordship of Christ if not keeping his commandments as we are told to do in John 14 and 15?

    What does it really mean to make Christ "Lord" of your life, if it doesn't mean to obey him?

    And if in the Old Testament obedience to the commands of Jehova did not bring salvation,why would obedience to Christ (making him "Lord") in the N.T. bring salvation?

    LS is works with subtle words changed.
     
  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,557
    Likes Received:
    625
    Faith:
    Baptist
    For you anti-Lordshipers

    How do you understand Luke 14:25-35

    He says-they are not worthy

    Luke 6:46 also demonstrates following Jesus as Lord

    True saving faith results in obedient holy living. Notice that true saving faith changes us
     
    #37 Marooncat79, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2015
  18. gigabyte71

    gigabyte71 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    0
    Easy, read it in context, taking into account the audience, and leaving out reading into the text what I think it should mean.
     
  19. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    130
    Faith:
    Baptist
    nevermind this post
     
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    In Luke 14:24,25, these are the last two verses of a parable. Three verses later he begins another parable. Now consider the two verse stuck in between these two parables:

    Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
    27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

    The parables are about discipleship and are directed to disciples not to those ones that are first trusting Christ. There is a doctrine of sanctification that needs to be considered.
    Most new Christians would never be at the place to obey Luke 14:26,27, especially the day they are saved. Those verses are written to mature Christians, those who Christ is commanding to go the mission field, for example. Would you send a new believer to the nation of India when he hardly knows the gospel himself?
    Would he be willing to forsake all that he has including his own family just one day after he is saved? Really?
     
Loading...