You thought my answer was funny?
. . . in sanctification of the Spirit . . . .
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Sep 14, 2019.
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1) Election
3) The Call
6) Sanctification
5) Repentance
4) Faith
2) Regeneration. -
EPHESIANS 1:13 In whom you also trusted, AFTER THAT YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, the gospel of your salvation: IN WHOM AFTER THAT YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
This is only sent in love and as a help to you. I hope you can receive this correction in the Spirit it was given (love). -
If so, that makes no sense to me 37818 because every one of the human race has no merit before God therefor God would choose everyone.
IOW IF being wholly without merit is the criteria, GOD would therefor choose everyone. -
Salvation ( God's decision to save someone ) is prior to sanctification ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ), because it happened before the foundation of the world.
Sanctification happened at the cross for God's elect, when Christ, who was slain from the foundation of the world ( Revelation 13:8 ), later went to the cross to give His life for His sheep ( John 10:11 ).
Repentance happened in real time in the life of the believer.
Salvation ( Choosing ) --------> Sanctification ( Christ's sacrifice ) --------> Regeneration --------> Gospel ( word of God ) / "Calling" ( Through the Holy Ghost ) --------> Belief ( of the word of God, not the words of men ) -------> Repentance.
This is where I differ with most who are considered "Calvinists", because I believe, through my reading of Scripture, that sanctification is actually of two different types:
1) Positionally, in God's eyes, through the blood of Christ on the cross ( Hebrews 10:10 ).
2) Of the spirit ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ), which happens in real time and otherwise known as "regeneration" or being born again in the inward man.
Christ's sheep cannot be lost ( John 6:39 ).
It's a "hypothetical situation" imposed as a serious warning to a Hebrew believer because of Israel's past history with God.
But I have to agree with @Reformed on this one.
Here's the key to Hebrews 10:29:
" of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" ( Hebrews 10:29 ).
Like Hebrews 6:4-6, this is a warning primarily to Hebrew believers.
Both of those passages are hypothetical situations used to warn the Hebrew believer of how seriously God wants them to treat Him.
Only the saved are sanctified ( made holy in the sight of God ) by the blood of Christ ( Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 5:25-27, Hebrews 10:10-14 ).
There's no way this could be describing a saved individual, given Christ's promises in John... as well as what sanctification does, for whom it was accomplished, and when it was done ( at the cross ). -
The wording is such that it makes one think that the false teachers were also bought by the Lord.
OK...we could start a whole thread on this verse alone.
I'd prefer not to, at this point.
However, I'd like to point out that many have made the connection with the "them" after "bought", and linked it back to "the people" earlier in the verse.
Therefore, the false teachers were not bought, but do go so far as to deny the Lord that bought the people.
Problem solved?
I think so, but it definitely does cause one to do a double take.
In order to resolve the problem, one has to study the Atonement in-depth, and see who was bought and paid for by the blood of Christ.
It's not an easy thing to develop with Scripture.
But one thing that I think is overlooked, is that those that are bought ( 1 Corinthians 6:20 ), are kept ( 1 Peter 1:5 ).
Either salvation can be lost, or it cannot.
Either those that are bought are kept, or they are not.
If the man in 2 Peter 2:1 was bought by the blood of Christ, then He purchased someone that He could not keep.
As evidenced by 2 Peter 2:21-22, they fell away.
Christ's sheep, whom He has purchased with His own blood ( Acts of the Apostles 20:28 ), cannot fall away and be lost again ( John 6:39 ).
Again, they are kept by the power of God ( 1 Peter 1:5 ). -
It's one of several.:) -
*If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction in scripture because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)
The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation. *In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained.
So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.
In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But WE are not OF THOSE who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. -
Because of the irregular church baggage of pentance, repentance, I am of the strong opinion term "repent" and "repentance" should never more be used in translation for changing one's mind or changing one's view. -
Yet another utterly bogus thread.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we were chosen (elected) through faith in the truth. Therefore faith comes before our individual election for salvation.
When something happens through something, the through something provides the access to the resulting action. Saved through faith means our faith provided our access to God's saving grace. Chosen through faith means our faith provided the basis of God's conditional election. -
Amazing... Our differences.
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Here is why...
How can you repent if you first do not believe?
What comes first faith or the Word of God?
If there is no Word there can be no faith because if you do not know you cannot believe.
How can you repent if you do not know what you need to repent of?
We need a knowledge of the truth of God's Word before we can have faith. We need to believe and know what God says before we repent and follow His Word.
If you do not believe you cannot repent because repentance μετανοέω is a change of mind to think differently. The changing of the mind μετανοέω in MARK 1:15 is to "believe the Gospel" (the Word of God) πιστεύω to have faith in the good news; ἐν fixed position to rest and stay in this state; εὐαγγέλιον; good news (the Word of God).
Another words MARK 1:15 is a call to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word. It is the very Word of GOD that JESUS is saying that is God's Word that brings the call to REPENTANCE...
This is why it is written...
ACTS 17:30 IN TIMES OF IGNORANCE (when we do not know) GOD WINKS AT, BUT NOW (when a knowledge of the truth is come) CALLS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.
EPHESIANS 1:13 In whom you also trusted, AFTER THAT YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, the gospel of your salvation: IN WHOM AFTER THAT YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.
We need to have a KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God BEFORE we can REPENT. If there is no KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD there can be no faith and if there is no faith there can be no repentance..
ROMANS 10:17 FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.
Hope this is helpful. -
Some comments for your consideration provided below. Although I was considering making another thread in relation to this for the detail
HEBREWS 10:26-29 [26] For IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [29], OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT SUPPOSE YOU SHALL HE (Those who sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth) BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS (sinning willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth) TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT FOR WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED (past tense application) AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE THE THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
Notice v29 "HE" is in reference to the CONTEXT of v26-28 which is to "THOSE WHO SIN WILLFULLY AFTER RECEIVING A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" v29 is stating those who "RECEIVED AND KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" and sin willfully...
1. Receive a greater punishment then for have a knowledge of the truth and reject it to live a life of sin
2. By sinning willfully we count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and reject Chrsits sacrifice.
3. This person past tense "WAS SANCTIFIED" v29 by "RECEIVING A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" v26
Let's tie this all together now we have looked at the context to the GREEK Word meaning for "SANCTIFIED" as you are mistaken here. The GREEK Word used here in v29 is ἁγιάζω and means; TO MAKE HOLY, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate ; (mentally) to venerate: - HALLOW, BE HOLY, SANCTIFY.
So the summary here is that these people that left the faith "WERE SANCTIFIED" v29 by "RECEIVING A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" v26. They were "BELIEVERS" that were once made HOLY! Can you see your error here?
Notice the complete summary statement in HEBREWS 10:38-39 which sumarises HEBREWS 10:26-37
HEBREWS 10:38-39 [38], Now the just shall live by faith: but IF ANY MAN SHALL DRAW BACK MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. [39], But we are not of them who draw back to perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Those who DRAW BACK and depart the faith to a life of known UNREPENTANT SIN v26-37 is the WARNING subject matter being written to "BELIEVERS" being the topic of conversation.
Sorry Mailmandan, you post has no truth in it. Can you see your error here?
Hope this helps. -
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Such people often fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing/trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and cannot distinguish between mere "mental assent" belief or assent (James 2:19) from a personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 10:43; 16:31) This also explains why such people (like those in Mormonism and Churches of Christ cults) have so much faith in works for salvation. Their misunderstanding gives rise to the reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and belief/faith in scripture. To the contrary we find:
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.
Mark 1:15 - ..repent ye, and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.
Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order. -
The reason I say that is, before the cross the Jews were presented with the Gospel by Jesus Christ and were obligated under the Law of Moses to obey the commands of God.
The commandment to God's chosen earthly nation by the very One who gave them the Law, was...repent and believe.
Two different things that the Lord gave them while He was standing right in front of them.
Does the order matter?
I don't think so.
I think that he was commanding them to do two things, and it didn't matter the order.;)
Not to throw a wrench into things, notice the order now:
" Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:37-38 ).
Belief ( pricked in their heart, what I like to call "conviction" ), followed by repentance and baptism. :)
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