Irresistible Grace

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Sai, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. Dave G Well-Known Member

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    "Any man" means "any man" that he is talking to among the church that He is addressing.
    In this case, the one at Laodicea.

    If you cannot see that, I'm sorry.
    Yes, He did.
    That is the context, roby.

    The "any man" in verse 20 is bracketed and clarified by the "as many as I love" in verse 19, the "him that overcomes" in verse 21 and the "he that has an ear" in verse 22.
    It is to those that He is speaking.
    You may lift it out of the text, use it to ,mean "any man that God has created" and quote it that way if you wish, but I cannot.
    To me, the context does not bear that out.

    Again, I'm sorry that you do not see that.
    BTW,
    I confidently rest on the "KJV", despite its few "goofs and booboos", because to me, it's far more accurate to the Greek Received Text and the Ben Chayyim Hebrew than any other translation in the English today.
    In addition, I hold that it's more faithful in the words that it does use when compared to other English translations, even though those words have now fallen into disuse.

    We can disagree all you like roby, and you can hate the KJV all you want, but I will continue to use it whether or not you condone it.
    With respect, for you to keep reminding me of your hatred of it does nothing to change my mind, nor am I willing to stop quoting from it on this forum just because you happen to think that it's not a good translation.

    I figure that if it was good enough for my brothers and sisters down through the years of the past 3-4 centuries, and it's good enough now.
    Frankly, I have no trouble understanding it, even if you might.

    May God bless you, sir, and know that I bear you no ill will...
    even though you keep bringing this subject up time and again.:)
     
  2. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody speaking under inspiration taught that the law was bad. Read Romans 7 where Paul was telling how it was holy, just, and good. But that which was holy, just, and good condemned him because he could not meet its standards. He wrote of the glory of the law in 2 Cor 3:as being so glorious that Moses had to cover his head when he came from receiving it because of his shining. I know what the law is and, yes, Israel did try to get saved by it if we can believe the record. Here;

    Romans 10:1-5
    1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
    2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
    3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
     
  3. Sai Well-Known Member

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    “Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.”
    ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭51:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
     
  4. 37818 Well-Known Member

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    Titus 2:11, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, . . ."
     
  5. Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Amen !!!
     
  6. Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    No one was saved at the cross . That would deny the resurection .
     
  7. Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    ALL were "Going to Hell".

    = Acts 8:48. "And as many as were ordained unto eternal life believed."

    Jesus Stands and knocks at the door of the heart of The Believers,
    in THE CHURCH ASSEMBLIES, HE IS WRITING TO.

    = nothing to do with 'Salvation', or lost souls.

    *Church membership in The New Testament church assemblies of Jesus Christ, then and now, have a prerequisite of a Salvation Testimony, before being accepted into membership, by Scriptural Baptism ( administered by a Divinely Organized church of Jesus Christ, in accordance with New Testament Authority).

    Saying God Predestined some to 'service', but not Salvation is too deep a water for me to tread in.
     
  8. Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

    The verse before gives the context of, 20 "Behold, I stand at the door, ( of, As many as I love) and knock: if any man (of, As many as I love) hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him,(of, As many as I love) and will sup with him, (of, As many as I love) and he ( of, As many as I love) with me.

    *Church membership in The New Testament church assemblies of Jesus Christ, then and now, have a prerequisite of a Salvation Testimony, before being accepted into membership, by Scriptural Baptism ( administered by a Divinely Organized church of Jesus Christ, in accordance with New Testament Authority).

    22 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the *churches."

    ...is the COMMAND GIVEN regarding being Faithful to the ADMONITION and WARNING,
    made to the same Saved souls in;
    19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

    ...
    That is why this is true in reference to:
    Jesus Stands and knocks at the door of the heart of The Believers.

    = nothing to do with 'Salvation', or lost souls.
     
  9. Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    2 Timothy 2:19. "Nevertheless the Foundation of God Standeth Sure;
    having this Seal, The Lord Knoweth them that are His."
     
  10. Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "...let it be observed that the state of this church, and the members of it, was such that she was not cold, without a principle of spiritual life and love, and a profession of religion/"

    These were Saved souls and members of One of The Lord's New Testament churches.


    The Cause of God and Truth

    Part 1, Section 59—Revelation 2 and Revelation 3.
     
  11. Sai Well-Known Member

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    Praise God.
     
  12. MB Well-Known Member

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    There is no acts 8:48
    MB
     
  13. Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    13
     
  14. MB Well-Known Member

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    A word for word translation such as the YLT does not say the same thing does it?

    Act 13:48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe—as many as were appointed to life age-during;
    MB
     
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    What about Acts 7:51?

    "“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you"

    The context is about salvation
     
  16. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There were different levels of resistance. Holy Spirit = God. In the OT they resisted God and brought great judgement and exile, time and again. It had nothing to do with salvation. In the NT their resistance brought the siege of Jerusalem and their physical removal as a nation and worse.
     
  17. Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Predestination and Election are not the same . Election is to service . Predestination is once people are saved they are predestined to future guaranteed Adoption, which is defined not as at conversion ( thats the Spirit OF adoption ) But glorification. No one is predsestined TO BE saved in some weird gnostic 'eternity past '. before we existed ; arbitrarily that no one knows about and the bible speak s nothing about . And I think you meant Acts 13 .48 . But they clearly appointed themselves . There is no mention of God doing the appointing . Let alone before the foundation of the world.
    Acts 13 .46 makes this clear when these Jews do not appoint / incline / choose themselves worthy of eternal life .
     
  18. MB Well-Known Member

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    Resisting the Holy Spirit is resisting God and Salvation. Rejection of Christ is resisting Jesus and the grace of God.
    MB
     
  19. 1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You are confusing Law (not saved) with grace (saved).
     
  20. JD731 Well-Known Member

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    There is no basis in reality or reason or logic for such a doctrine as irresistible grace. There certainly is no scriptures that teaches it. Off the top of my head, I can't think an instance in scripture where God uses an adjective to modify his grace. God does not know anything about "irresistible" grace. He knows something about the dispensation of grace. The reformed who knows a lot about something that God knows nothing about knows nothing about something he reveals as a doctrine in his scriptures. I have never met a Reformed believer who can make a reasonable and logical comment about the dispensation of grace.


    Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (gentile-ward)

    Irresistible grace.
    Dispensation of grace

    Which is biblical? Which is true? Which has a scriptural body of teaching?