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Featured Is Christianity Accessible to All People?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Ok...we obviously went down a rabbit trail. To get back on topic. I believe there was a path to salvation prior to Jesus. I also believe that path was still through Jesus. I do not believe that that path is now closed. Hebrews 11 provides numerous examples.
     
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  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The Roman Catholic Church does not rely on scripture alone. That is the main difference. The papacy treats Roman Catholic tradition to be on par with scripture. How else do you account for the veneration of saints, prayers for the dead, baptismal regeneration, purgatory, worship of Mary et. al? Roman Catholicism preaches a false gospel.
     
  3. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Salvation has always been on the basis of faith.

    Romans 4:3 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” (c.f. Genesis 15:6)
     
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  4. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    They are referencing passages like John 2 and Philippians 2:12 to suggest that salvation is a process.
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    So, they forget Philippians 2:13 and its emphasis on sanctification?

    You claim to be a non-Baptist Christian in your profile. Are you a Roman Catholic?
     
  6. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I used to be Catholic until I was about 20. I am no longer Catholic because of the reasons you've mentioned. Although I believe the Catholic Church to have a skewed interpretation of scripture, it would be wrong to say that they've abandoned scripture all together. I am not sure the last time you looked at the Catholic Catechism. But if you did, you would find that every paragraph has a biblical reference. Even the stuff about purgatory and saint worship, there is a bible reference.
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
    8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3 YLT

    This was no new thing Christ was implementing here, He was 'uttering things hidden from the foundation of the world' [Matthew 13:35]. The birth from above was a mystery of old revealed.
     
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    People quote that passage all of the time, but was it not directly mainly towards those under the Old Covenant relationship between God and israel of that time?
     
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Gal 4

    3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
    4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
    5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
    6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Ps 87
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Himself indicated that the ONLY "work" God requires from a sinner to get saved is to believe on the One that God sent to save a sinner, the Lord Jesus!
     
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  11. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    I agree. However, Reformed is suggesting that the belief is a response after one is graced with salvation. At least that's what I think he was saying. Reformed is welcome to correct me if I am wrong.

    In regards to Jesus. He did say that "Unless we become like children we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven" Matt. 18:3. Jesus also said that we must be born again (John 3) and lose our life Like 9:24.
     
    #91 delizzle, Feb 5, 2018
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  12. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    REALLY?... Then what are you going to do with these verses?... Brother Glen:)

    Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
     
    #92 tyndale1946, Feb 5, 2018
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  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Belief occurs after regeneration (or illumination depending on how one divided the ordo salutis). The Holy Spirit must first make a person capable of belief.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  14. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The Roman Catholic Church quoted scripture when I was a young boy in the 60's. For that matter, Satan quotes scripture. The Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses quote scripture. It is how they interpret what they quote that reveals what they believe. In the papist system scripture will never contradict canon law or tradition.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as the natural man cannot and will not by themselves even desire to get saved!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Still need to place faith in Him in order to have that salvation occur!
     
  17. delizzle

    delizzle Active Member

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    Like I said, no argument from me. It only took me comparing the CCC with a bible to see the blatant contradictions. The point where I could no longer call the Pope the "Vicar or Christ", I could no longer call myself Catholic.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His point is that as sinners, with our sin natures, we cannot even turn to Jesus/accept the Gospel, place faith in Him , until and unless the Holy Spirit quickens/enables us to be able to do that first!
     
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  19. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Its the Faith of Jesus that give you access to Faith in Jesus!... He tread the winepress alone!... When you see the words... Ungodly... Sinner... And Enemy, feel free to insert your name... Then maybe you will understand how Salvation occurs!... Until then... Oh well:rolleyes:... Brother Glen:)

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus died in my place, and purchased my salvation back to God for me, but I was still needing to have faith to access that Grace that saved me...
     
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