Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

Why would David's infant go to heaven?

1) All babies are born sinless and thus are just like God, holy and perfect. Jesus death is unnecessary and in fact each child has the potential to be perfect throughout all its life.

2) God chose to extend grace to a corrupt human with a sin nature without requiring repentance or acceptance as a legal requirement for salvation. The infant is saved solely by grace alone.

3) God did not choose to redeem David's infant and the infant is eternally in hell due to the corrupt nature passed on from Adam to all.

The first option makes Romans 3:23 a lie, since in that scenario not all have sinned nor have they fallen short of the glory of God.

The second option requires faith that God mercifully chose to redeem the infant by extending grace. This is what David seems to indicate.

The third option realizes that a just God keeps his word when He says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, therefore justice is meted out according to the law.

sbw, picks #1 with all its contradictions.

I pick #2, believing by faith that my beloved worships at the feet of the King.

I also accept that #3 is a just and fair option, even though it breaks my heart.

 

You are creating a story not shared in the text of scripture.

I accept what the text actually says.

Matthew 25:41-46

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”[/I]

 

Christians certainly can be prodigal children whom God will wait for as they come back.

Unfortunately, you refuse to see that every passage you quoted never says a person can choose to lose their salvation. It is your philosophy that drives you to a false conclusion about the text.


Notice who Peter is addressing in verse 1. Note that he is still speaking of these false prophets at the end of the chapter and into chapter 3.

You misunderstand.

2 Peter 2:1,19-22
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

1 Corinthians 5 has nothing to do with losing salvation, but everything to do with church discipline.

Now to Hebrews 6. Let's look at the verses you left off. Notice that the writer takes careful effort to say this is not the outcome for his readers, who are being tempted to fall back into legalism and salvation through the keeping of the law. One can never be saved by following the law.

Hebrews 6:1-12

[ii]Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings,the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned. Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.[/I]

Finally, Hebrews 10.
Let us look at the warning to those who fall back into the falsehood of salvation by following the law (which is actually what you preach, Strannik).

Hebrews 10:19-31

Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The writer to the Hebrews is not saying a person can lose his salvation. If that were so, then the promise of God would be a failed promise. The writer is warning those who attend church, but still want salvation by law that if they ignore the gospel of salvation by grace alone, they will die in their sins.

My how I wish you and sbw would see that you are preaching salvation by works of the law, the very thing that Paul declares anathema and that the writer to the Hebrews is warning about in Hebrews 6 and 10.

Beware of the message you preach for your message is not coming from God the Father, nor God the Son, nor God the Holy Spirit. The warning of these verses is to you and sbw. Heed them.

 

Let's look at a bit more of the passage ( by the way, that's Romans 9:22 in the quote above ):

" [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Here is the second half that explains the first:

23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" ( Romans 9:22-24 ).

There's your answer...

God is willing to show His wrath and to make His power known.
He endures with much long-suffering ( patience ), the vessels of wrath that are fitted to destruction.
Who are the vessels of wrath?

Those that He is willing to show His wrath to.

He also makes known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He had before prepared unto glory.
Who are the vessels of mercy?

Those whom He has "called"...not of ( from ) the Jews only, but also of ( from ) the Gentiles.



That's what I see and understand when I read this for myself.

 

Poor translations give an opening for false doctrine. As many as took the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.

Here is the message of Calvinism, and no one likes what it actually shares. "Now some of you, and only God knows who, will be able to actually understand my message this morning, as for the rest of you, you were damned from all eternity and nothing you can do will save yourself or your loved ones. Christ died for some of you for no known reason, God just decided to save a few. He made the rest of you so you are unable to desire God's righteous perfection, or His peace, or any of the other blessings of heaven. Nope, you down deep hate God.

 

That's not what the Greek says, Van.
This is:

Acts 13:48 Interlinear: And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe -- as many as were appointed to life age-during;

Acts 13:48 Lexicon: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 13:48 Interlinear: And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe -- as many as were appointed to life age-during;

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 13:48 - Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament

Interlinear Bible: Acts 13:48 - Textus Receptus Bibles


Here I clearly see that John Calvin and whatever he may have taught about any subject, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You're objecting to the words on the page and the underlying Greek as well.

 

I know what Acts 13:48 says and Calvinism's claims are no where to be found. Poor translations give an opening for false doctrine. As many as took the gospel's direction to eternal life believed.

 

So do I, and it says nothing even close to what you've highlighted in red.

 

Here is the message of the Bible:

"Now some of you, and only God truly knows who, will actually be willing to accept what the entirety of His Book says...
because it was given unto you, by His grace and mercy, to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven.

As for the rest of you, you were damned because of your willfully committed sins... and nothing self-serving and desperate "to get God off your back" in the way of works that you can do, will ever result in Him granting His favor to you;
Because deep down in your heart and past that "penitent" behavior and "belief" that you think will pacify Him, you really hate Him and His ways... and the only reason that you would agree to anything that He says, is in the hope that He will be satisfied with your "sacrifices" and give you a "get-out-of-jail-free card".

Christ died for some of you for the purpose of saving the ones that His Father decided to save.
He graciously gave you the privilege of knowing Him and His Son for the rest of eternity, and you didn't have to lift a finger to get any of it.

He made the rest of you and allowed you to fit yourselves for destruction by your continuous acts of unrepentant sin, and the reality of it is that you were never willing to desire God's righteous perfection, or His peace, or any of the other blessings from Heaven because they come with the requirement that you cast yourself unreservedly on the mercy of the court, abandon your rebellious ways and come to God with hat in hand... and believe on His Son's work of righteousness instead of your own;

A Son that you also hate for commanding you to repent and to forsake your sins forever."

 

That's the Gospel @Van

Christ crucified for sinners;
and apart from God's gift of the new birth, no one would be willing to believe it.

It's not an "offer".
It's a sincere promise that is made to whosoever believes it;
But it must be believed from the heart, not just with the mind and a simple assenting to a set of facts.

Tell me...
Have you believed on Christ in a life-changing way?
I hope so, sir, I truly hope so.

Because then you can say that God has shown His favor to you, as well.
That, my friend, is what's so amazing about His grace.

That there is nothing that one can do to merit it.

 

So God already knows who will respond with faith and who will reject the gospel, and yet, He commands us to preach the gospel to everyone.

According to you, then, the offer of salvation to all those God already knows will reject the gospel is an insincere offer of salvation.

That is exactly like your complaint about Reformed Theology.

Additionally, you are saying that actual faith in Jesus isn’t necessary for salvation. If a person dies without hearing the gospel so as to respond in faith, God will know whether they would have believed if they heard the gospel and apply that potential faith and allow them into heaven.

Why bother with evangelism at all?

You hatred of the Sovereignty of God in the salvation of mankind has seriously misguided your thinking.

peace to you

 

One taint so after another denial of biblical truth. The word translated as "appointed" actually refers to an arrangement by mutual consent.

 

Here we have a Calvinist denying Calvinism. Before anyone was created, and way before anyone committed any sins, according to Calvinism a few were chosen and the rest damned, foreordained to be unable to seek God or trust in Christ.

The more you know about Calvinism, the more its unbiblical nature stands out.

 

Here once again Calvinism denies Matthew 23:13 where some fallen people are seeking God by seeking to enter the kingdom.
Usually when cases are cited where people are seeking God, salvation, eternal life, and the like Calvinism's answer is to say they were not "really" seeking God. However, in this verse, they were effective because they were in the process of entering the kingdom.

Calvinism has no answer, so they will change the subject. Watch and learn...

 

Van, you are revealing your crutch again. Invariably, when the Bible reveals you to be wrong, you fall on Calvinism as your psychological means of holding to your false teaching. I, for one, am wondering when you will give up your crutch.

 

Well, that's right. You will see to whom He said this and because of what?

 

You realize that both the sheep and the goat were unaware of what they had or had not done... don't you?
Therefore it was God's Sovereign choice in deciding, not human effort that forced God to decide.

Our fundamental difference is:

I believe God is the cause agent of salvation.

You believe man is the cause agent of salvation.

 

To understand what you believe, I can only go by what you say.

Concerning people who never heard the gospel, you said that God knows who would have believed if they heard the gospel and let them into heaven even though they never expressed faith in Jesus.

Wow!! That is truly a dumb thing to say.

According to you, the gospel offer of salvation to all is insincere because God already knows who will believe and who will reject the gospel.

It is an insincere offer to all those that God knows will reject the gospel. Why does God tell us to preach the gospel to people He knows will reject it?

In fact, since you believe God will let people into heaven if they WOULD HAVE believed but never heard the gospel, why bother with evangelism at all?

Again, your hatred for the sovereignty of God in the salvation of mankind has caused you to have seriously misguided thinking.

peace to you