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Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 28, 2021.

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  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    If God wanted “EVERY human being” to hear the Good News, why did He ordain a method (preaching the gospel by people) that would insure billions of human beings would live and die without ever hearing the gospel?

    peace to you
     
  2. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    Brother, it seems to me that you have insulted your brother?
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that God ordained billions of people to go to Hell? Can you provide just one Scripture supporting this
     
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You stated God wanted “EVERY human being” to hear the gospel, with emphasis on EVERY.

    I asked the question, which you failed to even attempt to answer, that if God wanted “EVERY human being” to hear the gospel, why did He ordain a method of spreading the gospel (preaching by people) that would insure billions of people would never hear the gospel?

    Rocks and trees and donkeys and birds could have spoken the gospel to EVERY human being in their own language. God could have re-arraigned the stars to proclaim the gospel in every language.

    Please answer my question first, and by doing so you will answer the question you asked me.

    peace to you
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You must be born again.

    Nothing about, 'believe', unless it implies conviction.

    No conviction means no comprehension of Total Depravity.

    'Praying' is not how God Saves people.

    You Will Not Come unto Me that you might Have Eternal Life is why John 6:66 "From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.

    67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

    68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.…

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
     
  6. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    I'm sorry, but can I speak for myself then?
    =====================
    Do you remember what Jesus likened the Kingdom of God to?
    --------------
    18 But he said, " What is the kingdom of God like?" and what will I liken it to?
    19 It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden; and it grew, and became a great tree, and the birds of the air took refuge in its branches.
    20 And he said, " To what shall I liken the kingdom of God?"
    21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and put into three measures of flour, until it was all leavened.
    22 And he went through the cities and villages, teaching and guiding the way to Jerusalem.
    23 Someone said to him, " Lord! are there few that be saved? And he said unto them
    , 24 Strive ye to enter through the narrow gate: for I say unto you, many will seek to enter, and they will not be able.
    25 When the master of the house gets up and closes the doors, then you will stand outside and knock on the doors and say, " Lord! Oh, my God! Open it to us; but He will answer and say to you, " I do not know you where you are from."
    26 Then you will say, " We have eaten and drunk before you, and you have taught in our streets."
    27 But he will say, " I say to you, I do not know you where you come from.
    28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves cast out.
    29 And they shall come from East and West, and North and South, and shall sit down in the Kingdom of God.
    30 And behold, there are the last who will be the first, and there are the first who will be the last.
    (Luke 13: 18-30)
    ------------------------
    1) As we can see, the Kingdom of God on Earth is gradually spreading, and it is not taking over the world through violent occupation.
    In this, God has given us the freedom to choose our will, so that we may choose His kingdom ourselves.
    2) the parable we can see that a lot of people according to their own will try to enter into the Kingdom of God, but I can't because this is just an example of what their business will not be saved. God did not accept them, because they did not believe properly and did not show their faith in good deeds.
     
  7. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    64 But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who the unbelievers were, and who would betray Him.
    65 And he said, " This is why I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is given to him from my Father."
    66 From that time on, many of his disciples departed from him and did not go with him any more.
    67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Will you also go away?"
    68 Simon Peter answered him, " Lord! who should we go to?
    69 And we have believed and known that you are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    70 Jesus answered them, " Have I not chosen you twelve?" but one of you is the devil.
    71 This is what he said about Judas Simon Iscariot, for he wanted to betray Him, being one of the twelve.
    (John.6:64-71)
    -------------------------------------------------------
    You've forgotten what I wrote before. In fact, both sides are 100% involved in saving people. God 100% saves us and calls us, and people also make 100% efforts to be saved and accept Christ and His Sacrifice by faith.
    -----------------------------
    12 But from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven is taken by force, and those who make an effort take it away.,
    13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied before John.
    14 And if you want to receive him, he is Elijah, who must come.
    15 Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear.
    (Matt.11:12-15)
    ==================================
    So those who, as it turned out, did not believe in Christ departed from Christ. They seemed to be one of those who hoped to put Him on the throne of the earth as an ordinary king, and He said that His Kingdom was not of this world.
    Just because the Father did not give them faith, it does not mean that He does not want them to be saved. He simply showed through this situation that the desires of even good people are not quite good from the point of view of God, since they are not able to accept the fullness of His Revelations on their own. They can only accept some of them.
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Accusation #2
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Ordained by God...

    Matthew 25:41-46

    “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

    No doubt your pride will push you to excuse these verses away, even though I have just provided what you asked.
     
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No need to apologize, you are welcome to comment as you see fit.

    In fact, I appreciate your focus on scripture.

    Although you did address the issue of why God chose the preaching of the gospel with scripture, you didn’t connect it to the assertion that God wanted EVERY human being to hear the gospel.

    peace to you
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the Gospel is to be preached to the entire human race. Just because the majority will very sadly end up in eternal punishment, does not mean that somehow God has failed. People have the ability to either accept or reject this Gospel Message. But God does not "ordain" anyone to got to hell, this is theological nonsense!
     
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  12. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    Here you are again adjusting the text of the Scripture. There is just saying that God doesn't know not just "someone out there", namely those who have not confirmed their faith by their own good deeds of faith:
    ------------------------------
    1 Then will be like the Kingdom of heaven is ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    2 Of these, five were wise and five were foolish.
    3 When the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them.
    4 But the wise men took the oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    5 And when the bridegroom tarried, they all fell asleep and fell asleep.
    6 But at midnight there was a cry, " Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him."
    7 Then all those virgins stood up and adjusted their lamps.
    8 But the foolish said to the wise, " Give us your oil, for our lamps are going out."
    9 But the wise men answered, " Lest there be a lack both among us and among you, go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves."
    10 And when they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast, and the doors were shut;
    11 Then the other virgins also came, and said, " Lord! Oh, my God! open it for us.
    12 And he answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man will come.
    14 For he will act like a man who, going into a foreign land, called his servants and entrusted them with his possessions:
    15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his strength; and immediately he set out.
    16 He who received the five talents went and put them to use, and acquired the other five talents.;
    17 In the same way, he who received two talents acquired the other two.;
    18 But he who received one talent went and buried it in the ground, and hid his master's money.
    19 After a long time, the master of those servants comes and demands an account from them.
    20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord! five talents you have given me; behold, the other five talents I have acquired with them.
    21 His master said to him, " Well done, good and faithful servant." In small things you have been faithful, over many things I will set you; enter into the joy of your master.
    22 Then the one who had received the two talents also came and said, " Sir! two talents thou didst deliver to me; lo, other two talents I have gained beside them.
    23 His master said to him, " Well done, good and faithful servant." In small things you have been faithful, over many things I will set you; enter into the joy of your master.
    24 Then the one who had received one talent came and said, " Master! I knew you to be a cruel man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter.
    25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground.
    26 And his master answered and said unto him, Thou art a wicked servant, and a slothful one. You knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered;
    27 Therefore you should have given my money to the merchants, and I would have come and received it with profit.;
    28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.,
    29 For to every one that hath it shall be given, and it shall be multiplied; but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away.;
    30 but cast out the worthless servant into the outer darkness: there will be crying and gnashing of teeth. When he had said this, he cried out, " Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear!"
    31 But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory,
    32 And all the nations will be gathered together before him; and he will separate the one from the other, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
    33 And he will set the sheep on his right hand, and the goats on his left.
    34 Then the King will say to those on his right hand, " Come, you who are blessed of my Father, and inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.":
    35 For I was hungry, and you gave me food; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you received me;
    36 I was naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.
    37 Then the righteous will answer and say to him, " Lord! When did we see You hungry and feed You?
    38 When did we see you as a stranger and receive you?
    39 When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?
    40 And the king will answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Because ye did it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye did it unto me.
    41 Then he will also say to those on the left side, " Go away from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was hungry, and you did not give me food; I was thirsty, and you did not give me water;
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took Me in; I was naked and ye clothed Me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited Me not.
    44 Then they will also answer and say to him, " Lord! when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and not serve You?
    45 Then he will answer and say to them, " Verily I say to you, because you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me."
    46 And these shall go to everlasting torment, and the righteous to everlasting life.
    (Matthew 25: 1-46)
     
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    No sinner can ever go to the Lord in and of themselves for salvation, this is an impossibility. They firstly need to hear the Gospel Message preached, which gives them the faith to believe the Gospel. However, they are also free to reject this Gospel, and disregard God's warnings of eternal punishment. Sinners are convicted by the Holy Spirit through the Gospel, and some respond by accepting it, while others do not. This does not mean that God has somehow failed.
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You seem to think all people begin in a “neutral” position before God, just waiting to hear the gospel to accept or reject and the consequences that come with that decision.

    EVERY human being starts in a state of condemnation before God.

    God ordained the proclamation of the gospel as the means by which those He has chosen will be saved.

    You still haven’t attempted to answer my question. You stated God wanted EVERY human being to hear the gospel. Why did God ordain a method of salvation (proclamation of the gospel by people) that would insure billions of people will live and die without hearing the gospel?

    Peace to you
     
    #74 canadyjd, Mar 1, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    No one has been able to show that David's infant son who died, did not got to heaven when he died, as David clearly says that he would be joining him some day. As the infant was far too young to "repent and believe", it is clear from Scriptures like Isaiah 7:16 and Romans 9:11, that there is a "time", known only to the Lord Himself, when all babies/infants are in the age of "unaccountability", before the Lord, as they have not yet committed any sinful acts.
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    then WHY would God make the Gospel Message available to the entire human race? Why tell the whole world that they COULD be saved, but all along only save a few? this is clear deception by God, which is IMPOSSIBLE!
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Well, that doesn’t attempt to answer the question either. Start another thread, don’t change the subject.

    peace to you
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You seem to now acknowledge that not EVERY human being will hear the gospel. Is that correct?

    peace to you
     
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    there are millions who have died in parts of this world that have never heard the Gospel, ask any Missionary Society.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    this deals with your absurd reasoning that everyone is born "condemned"! If this is true, then neither David's son, nor David himself are in heaven!
     
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