Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

canadyjd · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

there are millions who have died in parts of this world that have never heard the Gospel, ask any Missionary Society.
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Exactly. So your assertion that God wants EVERY human being to hear the gospel is clearly not accurate. If God wanted, rocks and trees and donkeys and birds could have preached the gospel to those “millions” that die without hearing the gospel, correct?

peace to you

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

canadyjd said: ↑

Exactly. So your assertion that God wants EVERY human being to hear the gospel is clearly not accurate. If God wanted, rocks and trees and donkeys and birds could have preached the gospel to those “millions” that die without hearing the gospel, correct?

peace to you
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your argument is moot! God "wills" that no human being is ever lost. What happens to those who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, is a Mystery. It is very possible, that God, being God, Foreknows all things, and would therefore know if the people who have died without hearing the Gospel, would have accepted or rejected the Gospel Message, and accordingly they go either to heaven or hell. Here is a question for you, do you believe that God will send all those who are born with mental problems, who know almost nothing, to eternal punishment? Those born with brain damage, are they condemned to the eternal flames of hell?

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

canadyjd said: ↑

f God wanted, rocks and trees and donkeys and birds could have preached the gospel to those “millions”
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and you know that God has not done this? He fed the OT Prophets by the birds delivering their food, so why not? God is without limits!

Strannik · Mar 1, 2021

canadyjd said: ↑

No need to apologize, you are welcome to comment as you see fit.

In fact, I appreciate your focus on scripture.

Although you did address the issue of why God chose the preaching of the gospel with scripture, you didn’t connect it to the assertion that God wanted EVERY human being to hear the gospel.

peace to you
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14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout all the world, as a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
(Matt.24:14)
+++++++++++++++++++++
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for you, and I make up for the lack in my flesh of the sorrows of Christ for his body, which is the Church,
25 To which I became a minister, according to the economy of God, which was entrusted to me for you, that I might fulfill the word of God.,
26 a secret hidden from ages and generations, but now revealed to his saints,
27 To whom God has been pleased to show what riches of glory are in this mystery to the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,
28 Whom we preach, admonishing every man, and teaching all wisdom, that we may make every man perfect in Christ Jesus.;
29 For this reason I labor and strive by His power, which works mightily in me.
(Col. 1: 24-29)
-------------------------------------------
Well, here we see that the Gospel will be preached to all nations necessarily, which means that an individual person must also hear It.

Strannik · Mar 1, 2021

canadyjd said: ↑

You seem to now acknowledge that not EVERY human being will hear the gospel. Is that correct?

peace to you
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In those who do not hear the Gospel, the Lord God Himself judges with a different judgment than the Church.
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13 But God judges the outsiders. So, cast out the corrupt one from among you.
(1 cor.5:13)
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11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 Those who have sinned without the law will be outlaws and will perish; but those who have sinned under the law will be condemned under the law
13 (for the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified,
14 For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, do what is lawful by nature, then, having no law, they are their own law:
15 They show that the work of the law is written in their hearts, as their conscience and their thoughts testify, now accusing, now justifying one another)
16 On the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secret works of men through Jesus Christ.
(ROM.2:11-16)
-------------------------------
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from Whose face fled the sky and the earth, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their works.
13 Then the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up the dead that were in them; and every man was judged according to his works.
14 Both death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whoever was not written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20: 11-15)

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

Strannik said: ↑

In those who do not hear the Gospel, the Lord God Himself judges with a different judgment than the Church.
--------------------------------------
13 But God judges the outsiders. So, cast out the corrupt one from among you.
(1 cor.5:13)
------------------------------------------------------------------
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 Those who have sinned without the law will be outlaws and will perish; but those who have sinned under the law will be condemned under the law
13 (for the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified,
14 For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, do what is lawful by nature, then, having no law, they are their own law:
15 They show that the work of the law is written in their hearts, as their conscience and their thoughts testify, now accusing, now justifying one another)
16 On the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secret works of men through Jesus Christ.
(ROM.2:11-16)
-------------------------------
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from Whose face fled the sky and the earth, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their works.
13 Then the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up the dead that were in them; and every man was judged according to his works.
14 Both death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whoever was not written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20: 11-15)
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Genesis 18:25, "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Yeshua1 · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

“And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15)

The phrase, “παση τη κτισει”, means, “to every creature”. The use of the singular, “παση” is important, as it means that the Gospel Message is not simply a “general” one, but to “every” human being!. This is exactly what the Apostle Paul says in Colossians 1:23, “if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister”

There are some who will argue from their theology, that all this means, is, that inatially the Gospel Messsage was intended for the Jews only, and thereafter to the Gentiles also. However, while this is true, this does not mean that there is any “limitation” on who the Gospel was to be preached to. The entire world consists of just two groups, Jews and Gentiles. If you were the one, then you were not the other. But, this is the sum-total of the entire human race, and not the “majority”, or any other distinction.

What is The Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire human race? Paul tells us this in 1 Corinthians 15:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the Gospel which I preached to you... For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” (1, 3, 4)

Here it is very clear, that the Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire world, is, “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”

The Gospel Message is a universal one, to be proclamied to not just some select groups, but to the entire human race, as the Bible clearly tells us. It is important to not what this Message consists of Biblically. “that Christ died for our sins”. It is clear from this, that the OUR must include the entire human race that this Gospel Message is to be proclaimed to. There is nothing here to suggest that it is only for the “elect”! Paul says in verse 11, “Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed”. That this Message had to be “believed” in, “by which you are also saved” (verse 2). In Acts chapter 13 we read of Paul’s preaching the Gospel to some Jews, “Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles” (v.46). These Jews “rejected” this Gospel Message, and “considered themselves unworthy of eternal life”, not what God “considered”. Here we have the two groups, the Jews, and the Gentiles (non Jews), who are the entire human race.

It is the One Gospel Message of Salvation from sins in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is to be proclaimed to the entire human race. There is no indication that this Message is to be proclaimed to any “select” few, as some falsly teach. This Gospel, Good News, is only that of Salvation, and not of damnation, which is not really “Good News” for anyone. If, as some suppose, that the Gospel of Salvation is intended for the “elect” only, then why does the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, and others, use universal language, which is clearly for the entire human race? Paul is very clear of this in Romans 11:32, “For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all”. God has “concluded” that the entire human race (τους παντας) is guilty of “disobedience”, the very sin that Adam and Eve were guilty of. Again, contextually we read of the Jews and Gentiles, which, as we know, are the sum-total of the human race. There is no exception. Paul then goes on to say, “that He may show mercy to all”. Notice that the Greek here is identical to the first part, “τους παντας”. This does not teach universal salvation, which is very clear from Paul’s use of “ελεηση”, which is in the subjunctive mood, “MIGHT (not WILL) show mercy”. The sinner must “repent and believe in the Gospel” (Mark 1:15), before they can be saved, as these are the two “conditions” that God has placed for any sinners salvation.

If the Gospel Message is universal, as the Bible clearly teaches, then, it must mean that the Daeth of Jesus Christ is also universal, as Paul has told us what this Gospel is, “that Christ died for our sins”, which is clearly universal! To suggest otherwise, is to say that God is insincere, when He commands “that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations (παντα τα εθνη), beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:46-47). Both the Jews and the Gentiles, the entire human race!

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36)
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The Gospel is the ordained istrument that the Holy Spirit used to enable his own to come to faith in the Lord jesus, and as Surgeon stated, we have no paint on the backs of whom those are to get saved, so preach and treach to all!

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

Yeshua1 said: ↑

The Gospel is the ordained istrument that the Holy Spirit used to enable his own to come to faith in the Lord jesus, and as Surgeon stated, we have no paint on the backs of whom those are to get saved, so preach and treach to all!
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this does not deal with the fact, that the Gospel is to be preached to every human being. Are you saying that if a "non elect" person were to hear the Gospel, and think that this is what they are really interested in, that they cannot be saved? Why will God allow the "non elect" to even hear the Good News, when He knows that they cannot ever be saved? If God is able to send His workers to people like Paul and Cornelius, directly with the Message for their salvation, then surely this same God can make sure that only the "elect" ever hear this Message for the salvation of their souls! Or are you suggesting that God is not able to do this today?

Yeshua1 · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

this does not deal with the fact, that the Gospel is to be preached to every human being. Are you saying that if a "non elect" person were to hear the Gospel, and think that this is what they are really interested in, that they cannot be saved? Why will God allow the "non elect" to even hear the Good News, when He knows that they cannot ever be saved? If God is able to send His workers to people like Paul and Cornelius, directly with the Message for their salvation, then surely this same God can make sure that only the "elect" ever hear this Message for the salvation of their souls! Or are you suggesting that God is not able to do this today?
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We do not know who will get saved, but the Lord does!

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

Yeshua1 said: ↑

We do not know who will get saved, but the Lord does!
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I never doubt this! However, how can it be sincere, to have the Gosple Message of salvation from sins and hope of eternal life, be proclaimed to the masses, when it is clear that God has no intention in ever saving the same masses who hear that same message! It seems very cold-hearted and deceitful!

Yeshua1 · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

I never doubt this! However, how can it be sincere, to have the Gosple Message of salvation from sins and hope of eternal life, be proclaimed to the masses, when it is clear that God has no intention in ever saving the same masses who hear that same message! It seems very cold-hearted and deceitful!
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You are thinking as a Man, and not as God!

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

Yeshua1 said: ↑

You are thinking as a Man, and not as God!
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God, that Bible says, SO LOVES the entire human race, that Jesus Christ also shed His Blood for Judas! But this cannot be accepted by some?

Yeshua1 · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

God, that Bible says, SO LOVES the entire human race, that Jesus Christ also shed His Blood for Judas! But this cannot be accepted by some?
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He shed his blood for a devil?

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

Yeshua1 said: ↑

You are thinking as a Man, and not as God!
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please expalin Romans 9:11, "What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction"

Yeshua1 · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

please expalin Romans 9:11, "What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction"
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See the Pharaoh and Judas!

SavedByGrace · Mar 1, 2021

Yeshua1 said: ↑

See the Pharaoh and Judas!
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Neither example is useful

AustinC · Mar 1, 2021

Strannik said: ↑

Here you are again adjusting the text of the Scripture. There is just saying that God doesn't know not just "someone out there", namely those who have not confirmed their faith by their own good deeds of faith:
------------------------------
1 Then will be like the Kingdom of heaven is ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 Of these, five were wise and five were foolish.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them.
4 But the wise men took the oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 And when the bridegroom tarried, they all fell asleep and fell asleep.
6 But at midnight there was a cry, " Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him."
7 Then all those virgins stood up and adjusted their lamps.
8 But the foolish said to the wise, " Give us your oil, for our lamps are going out."
9 But the wise men answered, " Lest there be a lack both among us and among you, go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves."
10 And when they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast, and the doors were shut;
11 Then the other virgins also came, and said, " Lord! Oh, my God! open it for us.
12 And he answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man will come.
14 For he will act like a man who, going into a foreign land, called his servants and entrusted them with his possessions:
15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his strength; and immediately he set out.
16 He who received the five talents went and put them to use, and acquired the other five talents.;
17 In the same way, he who received two talents acquired the other two.;
18 But he who received one talent went and buried it in the ground, and hid his master's money.
19 After a long time, the master of those servants comes and demands an account from them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord! five talents you have given me; behold, the other five talents I have acquired with them.
21 His master said to him, " Well done, good and faithful servant." In small things you have been faithful, over many things I will set you; enter into the joy of your master.
22 Then the one who had received the two talents also came and said, " Sir! two talents thou didst deliver to me; lo, other two talents I have gained beside them.
23 His master said to him, " Well done, good and faithful servant." In small things you have been faithful, over many things I will set you; enter into the joy of your master.
24 Then the one who had received one talent came and said, " Master! I knew you to be a cruel man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter.
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground.
26 And his master answered and said unto him, Thou art a wicked servant, and a slothful one. You knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered;
27 Therefore you should have given my money to the merchants, and I would have come and received it with profit.;
28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.,
29 For to every one that hath it shall be given, and it shall be multiplied; but from him that hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken away.;
30 but cast out the worthless servant into the outer darkness: there will be crying and gnashing of teeth. When he had said this, he cried out, " Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear!"
31 But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory,
32 And all the nations will be gathered together before him; and he will separate the one from the other, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 And he will set the sheep on his right hand, and the goats on his left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right hand, " Come, you who are blessed of my Father, and inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.":
35 For I was hungry, and you gave me food; I was thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you received me;
36 I was naked, and you clothed me; I was sick, and you visited me; I was in prison, and you came to me.
37 Then the righteous will answer and say to him, " Lord! When did we see You hungry and feed You?
38 When did we see you as a stranger and receive you?
39 When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?
40 And the king will answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Because ye did it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye did it unto me.
41 Then he will also say to those on the left side, " Go away from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was hungry, and you did not give me food; I was thirsty, and you did not give me water;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took Me in; I was naked and ye clothed Me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited Me not.
44 Then they will also answer and say to him, " Lord! when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and not serve You?
45 Then he will answer and say to them, " Verily I say to you, because you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me."
46 And these shall go to everlasting torment, and the righteous to everlasting life.
(Matthew 25: 1-46)
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LOL, I didn't adjust anything. I quoted Matthew 25 and specifically showed that God ordained the goats be sentenced to hell. It directly provided the text being required.
Second, why did you quote the entire chapter? How does quoting the whole chapter change the fact that the goats are sent to hell by God's ordination?

AustinC · Mar 1, 2021

SavedByGrace said: ↑

No sinner can ever go to the Lord in and of themselves for salvation, this is an impossibility. They firstly need to hear the Gospel Message preached, which gives them the faith to believe the Gospel. However, they are also free to reject this Gospel, and disregard God's warnings of eternal punishment. Sinners are convicted by the Holy Spirit through the Gospel, and some respond by accepting it, while others do not. This does not mean that God has somehow failed.
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Interesting dichotomy.
God does the work of salvation (I agree), yet, you then castrate God's authority and raise up man over God by declaring that once saved, humans are free to reject their freedom and return back to damnation.

And, apparently all person's who are born with no capacity to hear a preacher tell them of Jesus are always damned due to hell by virtue of their location, but since they never heard, they cannot have ever rejected, which ultimately creates a quandary where a person who neither accepts nor rejects is left in limbo.

Do you ever tire of the mental gymnastics and Bible twisting needed to maintain your sanity?

Rather than just take God at His word, you create an entire legal system of what must happen just so you can pat yourself on the back for the fine job of acceptance you have displayed.

Strannik · Mar 1, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

LOL, I didn't adjust anything. I quoted Matthew 25 and specifically showed that God ordained the goats be sentenced to hell. It directly provided the text being required.
Second, why did you quote the entire chapter? How does quoting the whole chapter change the fact that the goats are sent to hell by God's ordination?
Click to expand...

You will just see in the context of the whole chapter that God does not just expel goats somewhere, but He drove out those who, being called Christians (servants of the King), did not blow away good to the needy, and in general did evil of their own free will.

Just as it is said that those who did good of their own free will, but did not expect any benefit from it, will be justified.

Strannik · Mar 1, 2021

AustinC said: ↑

Interesting dichotomy.
God does the work of salvation (I agree), yet, you then castrate God's authority and raise up man over God by declaring that once saved, humans are free to reject their freedom and return back to damnation.

And, apparently all person's who are born with no capacity to hear a preacher tell them of Jesus are always damned due to hell by virtue of their location, but since they never heard, they cannot have ever rejected, which ultimately creates a quandary where a person who neither accepts nor rejects is left in limbo.

Do you ever tire of the mental gymnastics and Bible twisting needed to maintain your sanity?

Rather than just take God at His word, you create an entire legal system of what must happen just so you can pat yourself on the back for the fine job of acceptance you have displayed.
Click to expand...

As we can see, Christians are able to evade and must be brought back to the Truth.
----------------------------------------------
19 my Brothers! if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone should bring him back,
20 Let him know that he who turns a sinner from his false way will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
(Jas.5:19,20)
===========================================
Christians are able to fall into the old age of their sins and leave the Church
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 For if, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome by them, the latter is worse for them than the former.
21 It would be better for them not to know the way of righteousness, rather than to turn back from the holy commandment that was given to them.
22 But it happens to them according to the true proverb: the dog returns to his vomit, and the washed pig goes to wallow in the mud.
(2Pet. 2: 20-22)
--------------------------------------------------
Fallen Christians should even be excommunicated.
--------------------------------------------------------
3 But I, being absent in body, but present with you in spirit, have already decided, as if I were with you, who has done such a thing,
4 in your assembly in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, in communion with my spirit, by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver up the flesh to Satan, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
6 You have nothing to brag about. Don't you know that a little leaven leavens the whole dough?
(1 cor.5:3-6)
================================================
Those who are baptized with the Holy Spirit can fall away
---------------------------------------------------------------
4 for it is impossible For those once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and powers of the coming age,
6 and are fallen away, again to repentance, when they again crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put Him to.
7 The land that has drunk the rain that comes down on it many times, and produces grain that is useful to those for whom it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God;
8 But she who produces thorns and thistles is unprofitable, and is near to a curse, of which the end is burning.
9 But for you, beloved, we hope that you are in a better condition and that you are holding on to salvation, even though we say so.
(Heb. 6: 4-9)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
And here we see that Christians are able to fall away from the salvation of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

26 For if we, having received the knowledge of the truth, sin arbitrarily, then there is no more sacrifice for our sins,
27 but a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the fury of the fire that is ready to devour the adversaries.
28 If he who rejects the law of Moses, in the presence of two or three witnesses, is punished with death without mercy.,
29 How much more grievous punishment do you think will be inflicted on him who tramples on the Son of God, and does not regard as holy the Blood of the covenant, by which he is sanctified, and offends the Spirit of grace?
30 We know him who said: I have vengeance, and I will repay it, says the Lord. And again, the Lord will judge His people.
31 It is terrible to fall into the hands of the living God!
(Heb. 10: 26-31)

Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

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