Featured Is God Intrinsically Just?

Look, you said what you believe Scripture teaches. I said I do not believe that is what Scripture teaches. You have added to the text of Scripture. I mean in the sense you are presenting what you believe is taught as what is actually written. It is easy to do. We all do it. But consider the words of the text. I mean we have to keep our understanding separate from Scripture itself in our minds.

I agree that God laid our sins on Christ. I agree He is the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world. I agree that the scapegoat foreshadowed forgiveness (as sins were not actually transferred from people to animals, but instead God was passing over former sins).

You can put up or shut up. I'll make it simple - just post one verse I do not believe. Otherwise your remark is shameful behavior.

 

Saying that I, or you, or any member does not believe the Bible is shameful.

All three of us believe the Bible. We all believe the Bible is God's Word.

Where we differ is expounding on Scripture. Maybe a few places of interpretation, but not that I know of. It is in what we believe the Bible teaches that divides us.

But it is NEVER right to say somebody does not believe the Bible because they disagree with your opinion of what is taught.

 

You do hold extra-biblical views. We all do. The difference is the doctrines that we allow to be affected and how we hold those doctrines.

I am also representing standard Christian teaching. That does not mean that we cannot examine and argue our differences.

I did not recommend Torrance or Boyd, and I know some Mennonites have moved towards the Penal Substitution Theory (many Lutheran's have as well).

I do not know what new posters you are referencing (that itself is a bizarre statement). But I welcome any new members to the frey. The more the merrier.

 

I didn't recommend him.

I mentioned him when you asked if there were any theologians who did not accept the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement.

Arthur King quoted him or mentioned him on a thread.

I don't know enough about Boyd.

 

God laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

If I say iniquity means sin and you say it means immorality then we have different interpretations.

You expound on the verse (which is perfectly fine, we do this often in application).

You say God laid upon Him the iniquity of us all means that God transferred our sins from us and laid them on Christ.

That is expounding. That is offering your opinion of what the verse teaches. That is one of many opinions of what the verse teaches. It is extra-biblical in that "transferring our sins from us" is NOT in the verse at all.

And it cannot be tested against what is written because it is not in the text of Scripture.

All of that is fine.

The problem comes in when you claim it is in the text of Scripture (when you cannot separate your understanding of Scripture from God's Word itself).

And then you and @Martin Marprelate go the extra step of accusing those who do not believe your opinion of what the Bible teaches as not believing the Bible.

 

We have to deal with this odd comment as well.

You do not control who can and cannot post on this (or any) thread. A member, regardless of how long they have been a member, can post on any thread from r which they have access.

You don't get to pick and choose which can post here.

 

You said that I do not believe the Bible because I do not believe what you believe is taught by the Bible. You were wrong to do that.

You do add to Scripture. This does s clear in that you post that those who disagree with your opinions regarding what the Bible teaches do not believe the Bible.

You infer teachings from Scripture.

That is fine.

But then you post that what you believe is taught by Scripture is actually in "what is written".

That is literally adding to Scripture.

I have not said that you added to the prophecy of that book (Revelation). We have not been discussing the prophecy in that book.

But I do believe you will face consequences for elevating your understanding to God's Word. What they are is none of my business. But teachers will be held accountable for where they depart from Scripture


Try this - TEST your teaching against what is written.

God laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

Highlight "transferred our sin from us". It isn't there.

And Christ is the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.

Highlight where this is done by transfer. It isn't there.


We have several opinions about what is taught by Scripture. Yours is one of many. And like most, yours is also extra-biblical.

The difference is Christians should not lean on their own understanding but on God's Word. Hold your understanding, but don't confuse it with God's Word.

 

We don't not need to discourage new members from posting. You don't get to choose who posts and who does not post.


When I post as a moderator it will start with "Mod hat on" and conclude with "Mod hat off".

 

Except we have seen this multiple times before when @Martin Marprelate crosses a line. He never addressed his comment (here stating that I do not believe the Bible because I do not agree with what he thinks the Bible teaches) but simply gets quiet and let's a bit of time pass hoping his sin will be forgotten.

 

Yea....that seems to be the status quo. Make an accusation he can't back up and all of a sudden he's too busy and finds the board too challenging to his character to remain. Wait until his false accusations are forgotten and he comes back.

It's the circle of life .

 

And this is another example:

We don't not need to discourage new members from posting. You don't get to choose who posts and who does not post.

 

I'm doing my best to make sense of your post.

This is what you said:

So new posters come here and what? It gets bizarre?

When you make strange comments don't be surprised if others misunderstand what you are talking about. We can only do the best with your weird posts.

Learn to speak plainly and misunderstanding, if I have misunderstood, will not occur so often.

If you were not complaining about new members posting then what on earth are you talking about???


Edit: it isn't a shame that @Martin Marprelate said he is finished here. This has been said multiple times. And he was back yesterday (11-22 at 5am EST). @DaveXR650 was here the evening prior.

People get aggravated and say things they don't mean all the time. But when they cool down they typically start posting again. I've looked over this thread - my comments were not as bad as you two claim (I stand by them). But you too posted in a much more insulting way (didn't hurt my feelings, no issue). People simply get aggravated.